chat
send private message
{nations}
joined jul 2015
share {nations} and generate bitcoin with reference codes.
58 topics on {nations}
+16
bBoi
by  bBoi
How is Nationalism Any Different from Racism?
I don't want to give preference to someone the same color as me so why should I prefer someone for being born in the same country as me (or worse they are ordained a citizen by some twat)?
vikosh79
Basically it derives from the same origins. There are certain laws of ethnic relations in history of humankind, such as:

1. law of percentage: lets say a black person somewhere in gothenburg or copenhagen would trigger an amused curiosity and the outpouring of sincere sympathy, however, if you "inject" immigrant workers up to the fateful threshold of 4-8 percent and you will already have a racial situation - the nature of social relationships changes, engendering ethnic tensions, global reflexes painful to describe. The more the percentage increases, the more class struggle transforms itself into racial confrontation. Basically, this percentage is sufficient to make racial discrimination appear spontaneously in people who previously believed itself wholesome and devoid of any racist sentiment.

2. The law of assimilability: If majority and the minority belong to the same large ethnic group (all are white, or all a asian), then assimilation occurs progressively. For example, Spanish or Portuguese workers despised in France not so long ago, integrated themselves into population within the space of one generation; same for descendants of corsicans and the poles during napoleonic era, same for bambara minority living in senegal. But if the ethnic and cultural gap is too big, tensions are exacerbated with time. Like African Blacks and Arabs find themselves in this situation in Europe. Coexistance basically becomes possible only in a truly Socialist state or a state that has adopted a high morality philosophy.

3. the law of distance: like two ethnic groups that are not fighting over the same living space or same market and occupy different territories separated by space can enter into normal relationships. Like that an alliance can be explained during world war 2 between hitlers germany and japan. or relationship of pretoria with israel state.

4. the law of phenotype: basically physical appearance. It would matter little tgat botha and zulu in africa have the same genotype (same genes in the chromosomes) and it would have no influence on their daily lives because their external features are so different.
Laws of class struggle according to history applies only to societies previously made homogeneous by violence. Funny, that the most modern nations actually went through this bestial struggles before (Americas, australia, new zealand, good part of asia, greenland, huge part of pacific, scandinavia, etc, etc).For example Blacks of Americas were brough over to work the land, while the indigenous races were being destroyed. So, the "more advanced" barbarious conquerors exterminated/drove out whole populations, devastated or abandoned productive forces they they simply did not know how to use. This specific law is one of my favourite... how spartan domination ended by crumbling particularly because of the great numeric weakness of their REAL citizens. Because their society consisting of spartan conquerors and lowly helots both belonged to the same large white-skinned 'race', ethnic differences became blurred and it allowed class differences appeared only in an economic sense.
Same goes for Rome and Carthage, Rwanda-Burundi, Francs and Gallo-Romans.
Have a look at the american immigration laws and how it progressed throghout 19-20 centuries. This law also gave birth to so called intra-european racism, etc.

We forget that the passage from a clan to a monolingual tribe and to ethnic group and to nationality historically was a result, a consequences of clans exogamy. It is still widely discussed by specialists. But it marked starting point of the current civilization.
Endogamy was prohibited and we, humans, just started fucking people from the outside kkk several neibourhing clans contracted marriage ties that led them eventually to speak same languages despite that their original idioms were different.
The number of clans to gather together to work a more or less powerful tribe didnt follow any rules and depended mostly on the fertility and extent of the lands occupied by the group. Thus was born nationality.

In the course of history, when two groups of people argued over a vital economic space, the slightest ethnic difference can be magnified, temporarily serving as a pretext for social and political cleavage: differences in physical appearances, colour of your passport, language, religions, morals and customs.

We forget that basically future generations must forget about the dead so that the conquering people can undergo a rebirth with an angelic consience.
Why do we almost idolise, for example, conquistadors, holy crusaders and vikings? Pillagers, rapists, murderers and worse.

Most of the things we learn and follow, most of the times, blindly, things we consider as truths and solid facts, the very foundation of our personal universes - it was predominantly build based on someones ideologies.

Books, that our kids and us read, are also written under certain circumstances, conditions, requirements, with certain motivations. Dictated by an ideology.

Sooo.... sorry for the massive message. It just questions like this trigger something inside me, something that i consciously try to understand and overcome. For before we are races or nationalities, boys or girls, gays or straight, we are humans.

Peace yo.
+3
whatcanido234
Interesting points. I just came across this forum and will make a contribution. Meanwhile, on the topic of Scottish Nationalism, I have myself proposed Independence For England! We English (whatever that means through consensus) vote in a referendum to dissolve the union of England and Scotland. Never mind what they want, how about what we want, which may be to separate from them, along with the subject nation of Wales. We'll have our own oven ready breakfast and our own national covid death toll, while we surrender the last shreds of our integrity to the fucking Yanks and the fucking Chinese whose government leaders wouldn't make the groove as a couple of Pox Doctor's clerks.
+3
Raskolnikov
Please dont have the idea that all Scots want independence
. Plenty are and always will be happy to be part of the union. There is more at play than just Scottish Independence, certain elements see Scottish independence as a means to help another cause. Understand that Independence of Scotland is not the endgame for a lot of SNP supporters.
+4
metoo22
The whole SNP "independence" thing is a facade.

The SNP want to leave our union and join the EU club because they'll give them more money than Westminster does.

They still want to be financially "dependent", just a more generous sugar daddy.

I'm talking about the SNP, not all Scots :)
+1
whatcanido234
High Raskolnikov. Your post showed as a comment on mine so You're addressing me, then. I have no intention of stating anything about what Scots want. My point is that I consider an English Independence Referendum is incumbent on ourselves to determine our Englishness without the input of the other three nations. Devolution, revolution, phooey! We want ablution. Wash our hands of the lot of you. Do we? Who does? Has anyone got this underway? Sturgeon and Salmond? Something fishy about those two!
+2
Raskolnikov
I certainly don’t need a referendum to establish my Scottishness.
-1
Raskolnikov
I wouldn’t blame the English people if they started to see things this way but we are still all better as a union and I think you know this. Sturgeon and Salmond are just typical politicians mate who lying is a big part of the job description. There has been a huge change in Scotland in my lifetime where the working class vote has moved away from labour to the snp. Labour has shot themselves in the foot so many times but also the snp politics has changed. I have been on this earth a long time and the snp have changed so much. Sturgeon is still using her bloody daily briefing up here to try to indoctrinate the nation. I’m going to stop here as I am ranting.
+2
Raskolnikov
British here too. I feel like the silent majority of my country are the same
+2
whatcanido234
Not English, then. To be born an Englishman is to win first prize in the lottery of life. That life being the infliction of Imperialism on 25% of the world's population. Nothing wrong with that, was there?
+1
Raskolnikov
Cool. What were you born?
+2
coathill
Obviously, not britain. Tiocfaidh ár lá.
+0
Yas
Sturgeon's manifesto was just a wish list, impossible to accomplish. I don't want Scotland to leave. We may rib each other on things but I'd like to think we have each others back when things get tough. We live on the same island. Crazy to break up.
-1
Kargo3
I am British not Scottish or Welsh or Irish or English but British.
So the idea of England going on its own is kind of laughable.
I prefer this great country as one nation,I have lived all over UK so I class myself as British. Ever since devolved countries we had loads of petty arguments enough of the arguments and do there jobs.
The Scottish independence route will end up like n ireland scottish people are divided straight down the middle so can see issues battle grounds comes to mind bombings etc etc just like n ireland AND its not going to happen anyway thank god.:D
Or you english going be invaded of all the people that do not want there countries independent lol.

Plus the Queen will never allow it to happen she is still the most powerful lady in this country and can override any laws in the UK set by government it is in the small print when she signed it over to the government. She has her palaces all over the UK.

She wants to send to her son to America to answer for the crimes he is guilty as fk otherwise he would have gone over and answered there questions on very serious sex crimes.
Guilty as fk he is by dodging the request of the FBI and CIA law to himself hiding behind mummy he is.

I am British loud and proud !!!
+1
Raskolnikov
I’m British and Scottish mate. Think it is possible to be both. I’m not interested in Independence and believe it will not happen and will be a disaster if it does. In Scotland Salmond courted a certain block vote and got it. That is what has got the snp to where they are. That and shortbread tin thinking. They will soon want to let over 14 s vote. As I said in another post, Scottish Independence is not the endgame for a lot of snp.
+1
gardenvariety
Just curious, what do you believe to be the SNP's ultimate goal?
+1
hell bent for pleather
Wait do Scotts not have bangers and mash?
+1
grits
What an outstanding post thank you
+1
ike
this bigga
The Cheesemaster
Not necessarily, Scottish nationalism is an attempt to escape racism
silk worm
good one, i guess that goes for any anti colonial movement like vietnam for example
+0
Raskolnikov
It was a joke mate but fuck, Vietnam. Is that what you are comparing Scottish Independence to?
Raskolnikov
Sounds like something a Scottish nationalist would say.
+6
Golmagnum
Scotland's nationalist party don't want to exclude races, they want independence from another countries rule. It's not about racism.
+2
HotMeatPie
Unless is the European Union.
+6
diceman
lol. ok, i'll bite...

nationalism is a term for those with common interests as citizens of the same country working together for mutual benefit and/or pride.

racism is a hatred of one or more person/s where skin colour is the basis used for the defining attribute.

neither is mandatory last I heard.
+5
Jeffreyfly
Proper kettle of fish this one! but I couldn’t resist throwing my 2 cents in.

Racism is an inherent belief that one group are superior to another based purely on membership to said group; that for example being white would mean that you are superior to non-whites by virtue of your whiteness. Although this is of course the most common example, it’s important to remember that racism has been perpetrated by, and against, a multitude of groups such as the current situation in China with Uighur Muslims and so on.

Nationalism is the identification with ones nation and the desire to see that nation succeed. often, but not exclusively, to the detriment of other nations.

One can be a nationalist but not a racist, but I would argue that it’s quite rare to meet a racist who is not also a nationalist.

I don’t think nationalism is always a bad thing - we saw for example at the onset of COVID-19 in Europe a large degree of nationalism as all of these countries that are part of the Schengen Agreement suddenly conveniently ignored the treaty in order to shut their borders and protect their citizens (uselessly, as it turned out) against the spread of C19.

However, nationalist sentiment needs to be controlled carefully because the downside to it could be seen, you could argue, In the Capitol siege/riots on January 6th as nationalist fervour tends to spread and morph very rapidly and almost always ends in violence and almost always ends in Fascism

Sorry for the wall of text but this is such a fascinating topic!
+5
poop lion
a lot of nationalists aren't so much racists as exclusionary. they believe in a social contact that only exists amongst members. outsiders are not part of the deal.
Spudulika
Just like you would naturally have a preference for feeding your own family in your own home, before you concerned yourself with feeding anyone else.

This would not mean you hated other people, or didn't wish the best for them.

I think Nationalism is often confused with extreme Right wing ideologies, when it could be Left or Right really.
+2
Raskolnikov
Sounds kinda like racism.
+0
Bud`n'Beer
The national front! They were nationalists that says all you need to know!!!
+3
green face killa
national socialists also skew a little right
+1
Raskolnikov
Look into snp and the past. They have changed a lot.
+3
Parkedman
Yes you could look into the SNPs distant past or alternatively you could look at what the Tories are doing right now as we speak under your very nose.
It is funny how a conversation about nationalism is related to the SNP when anyone with eyes can see that British nationalism is the one being pushed everywhere in Britain.
The SNP didn't spend 2 million quid on a set of blue curtains and two Union Jacks and it is not the SNP who are plastering everything with the Butcher's apron either!
+3
Bigbum
Because we can change our nationality as it’s make believe. You cannot change your DNA which is real
+1
ydktjru
It's crazy how little of any of you understand what is going on.

THought stoners were supposed to be the ones who questioned narratives??

If we want to help these people who want to come to the west for a better life, we need to get the banking cartel off their backs, stop certain lunatics causing wars and improve their OWN nations.

That is truly the only way we will ever BRING ALL OF THESE PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY. Although the amount of people we let into our countries is high compared to our populations, the amount of people living on under $2 a day is 700 million! The whole of Europe is 700 million people, we would have to double our population to solve world poverty, it simply is not possible. We can never solve the problem in this way.

The ones we let immigrate (legal migration) are the brightest, most educated ones... What do you think that does to their home country?

We skim the cream for all the prospects, decreasing the likelihood of the nation ever prospering.

The diversity thing is so ironically racist it is insane, if we all mix together into brown people, where is the diversity then?

There would be no diversity left if we mix together.

REAL diversity is like a flower bed, you have the tulips, the roses, the daffodils, this and that, they all live in the same flower bed, but they are separated, distinct different flowers with different strengths and weaknesses.

When you go to a country on holiday, take Japan for example, you go there and it's great to enjoy a different way of life, a different culture, different scenery, different people. If we all mixed together there would be no other cultures to enjoy.

There would be only one culture under one Globalist world government.

"The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today's races and classes[a] will gradually disappear owing to the vanishing of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, similar in its appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples with a diversity of individuals." quote from the pioneer of European Unification, Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi.

If you want to hear the same thing from a different races perspective then listen to this Muhammad Ali interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqiWFLsgVi4

You can watch this but I warn you, it will make you question everything you were ever told in school, yet it is all backed up with facts that you can independently research yourself

https://rumble.com/v5hysd9-europa-the-last-battle-2017.html
+1
Tenpester
nationalism is more like greed, racism is more like hate.
+1
Essemcee
Not synonymous, but it's an interesting point.
In some sense, I think it is an individual and academic choice to be patriotic (even that is turned into a dirty word now), root for your country or be proud of it voxally. It's OK to like your country if you really do. You do live there after all. It's just a country. Other countries are not minorities in their own country as the British are not here.
As you allude to, it is a lottery, not a skill, being British (or Irish for that matter). There is little merit to being "proud" I agree. But it doesn't oppress anyone or anything in itself. It is a way to preserving culture and way of life. You can't pick who you think should be able to do that.
Otherwise, the takeaway is, only the oppressed are allowed to be proud of anything and preserve culture. What kind of world is that?
I do think that no matter what, being proud of your race is pointless, stupid and divisive.
It suggests a nexus between a superiority or exceptionality and racial group.
After all, skin colour is decided only by a few alleles in the genome and indicates very little about one's charachter.
E
+1
gypsum_fantastic
Racism is necessarily exclusionary. But Nationalism isn't.

In general I am wary of nationalism, but there are times when it has achieved positives.
+1
shenglongisdefeated
I think it is oxytocin that causes the problems as it creates aggressive in-grouping, be it from the innateness from skin colour or the innateness from where someone was born.

There was a study I linked to but there is more out there about the dark side of oxytocin. There was quite a few articles in the dumber section of media about giving men oxytocin to fix their aggression problems when in fact it might be a major factor in causing them.
+0
24601
Nationalism has more positive range for example promoting culture. Racism is usually associated with negative feelings about other races.

They both seem doomed if you ask me.
-1
Cr0w
only in touchy feely places like the uk ... not in most other countrys ... too much self hatred in this country ...
+0
S4boT4bby
There seem to be a prevailing perspective of an individualistic view on what racism is, i.e. the hatred or superiority of another race, nation, or ethnicity, however this view is overly simplistic as racism is structural and systemic and is only dependent on the individual when their actions are supported by the larger system.
One can be xenophobic, discriminatory and/or prejudiced against others from other places without it being racism if they are not the dominant race/ethnicity/or culture.
Racism = power + prejudice. That is the current understanding and definition of racism in social sciences and some dictionaries (as with Merriam Webster, which was updated two or three years ago). That is not to say that racial prejudice or discrimination is allowable or tolerable. It's not. However to quantify both types of prejudice (the one that is solely individual and the one that is supported by systemic structures) as the same thing or equivalent is false.
One is an individual opinion and has no greater repurcussions than that person's world's or actions, the other however plays into a wider narrative of oppression that reinforces the structural oppression and contributes to and reinforces societal and structural discrimination.
Nationalism is different in several ways.
Firstly, pride in ones nation does not mean an inherent prejudice or discrimination against those that come from other nations (although all too often it does manifest in such a way).
Secondly, if those expressing nationalist sentiment are not the dominant authority over said nation, then it is not racism but discrimination and prejudice as they lack the power to manifest that discrimination through institutions or on a structural scale. This type of nationalism often manifests as a resistance to colonial and imperial forces. In those cases the nationalism is not being the of an ideological superiority or innate belief in the dominance of one nation over another, but rather a resistance to such.
Therefore nationalism and racism only become the same when said nation propogates their dominance and superiority over others while simultaneously systemically oppressing other nations or supporting existing structural oppression and prejudice.

https://www.dismantlingracism.org/racism-defined.html
-1
Earzy97
I'm a nationalist. I want England and all our major cities to be English and not resemble Bangladesh. That makes one a racist nowadays.
+3
Redeyejedi25
If the reason you give for those cities resembling Bangladesh is people of other races, that's kinda the definition of racism. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a closet racist.
+1
HarryWarry
If it's the colour of people's skin you're referring to, and you're suggesting you have to be white to be regarded as english, then yes, you are. Not just nowadays, always.
+1
Cr0w
english is a race mate just like indian im english if i move to india im not an indian ? same thing should apply in the uk
+1
generation last
has india conquered and assimilated england in this scenario?
zeppomarx
by  zeppomarx
big tech races to world war 3
Networks Not Nations
theStrokes
what if they go nuclear?
putin assassination strategies
w4wendetta
The factory workers who fought fascism from Glasgow
theStrokes
Vietnam Goes Libertarian
Tenpester
by  Tenpester
want to end war? hold the weapons makers liable.
foster
by  foster
The Rise of Nazism Looks a Lot Like Now
at tes
by  at tes
If we don't need authority for trust what do we need it for?
Inheritance tax should be abolished?
Tenpester
by  Tenpester
The Weakness of the Despot
24601
by  24601
what would the world look like if we had a choice of countries?
bayou
by  bayou
Will Drones Destroy Border Controls?
mrcarta
by  mrcarta
The more you go fascist the closer we get.
theStrokes
Government works only to the extent people give a shit
JK Rowling Vs the SNP Hate crime laws.
doctor doc
is the coronavirus bio warfare?
silk worm
by  silk worm
"Civilization" set back human health and happiness for thousands of years.
Tenpester
by  Tenpester
A list of alternatives to nations
全金
by  全金
c02 emissions by country
Decentralised legal System
bit poppa
by  bit poppa
Taiwan is leading networked democracy
where is the most optimistic place on earth right now?
ike
by  ike
List of countries by income equality
Tenpester
by  Tenpester
it didn't have to be this way
all murderers are punished unless...
defnote
by  defnote
21 Times When Coffee was Illegal
Han duo
by  Han duo
China kills AI chatbots that learn to praise US
iron jizz
by  iron jizz
will the chinese gov say sorry?
Why are the governments of the US and Russia adversaries?
history's greatest murderer is now its greatest hacker
foster
by  foster
I'm not a national I'm a local -Taiye Selasi
What Is The Thucydides Trap?
iron jizz
by  iron jizz
End of nations: Is there an alternative to countries?
w4wendetta
World Riot I
alpo
by  alpo
Do they not teach history anymore?
Tenpester
by  Tenpester
How Do REgular Chinese People Feel About The Virus?
SlimShadow
Governing People (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy entry)
Strain for anxiety over impending coups?
Is Economic War Enough?
theStrokes
Cornell West on Neo Fascism
A new nation in Europe: Liberland (nyt.com) 
World Health Organisation petition
sarek
by  sarek
How Governments Introduce Surveillance Under Veil of Coronavirus Control
Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World (atlantic.com)
ingasway
by  ingasway
What countries are least targeted by terrorists?
poop lion
by  poop lion
Is Canada Fascism's Only Remaining Opponent?
neopulp
by  neopulp
Which country best recognizes online rights?
Futarchy: The Patch For Democracy
Is Europe Disintegrating? (ny review of books)
jonjon
by  jonjon
Culture and dissent evolve in Singapore's new native language
jez
by  jez
Is there a big Pan-Arab Sports Tournament?
DJ MJ
by  DJ MJ
World War III (new york times)
neverEnuff
Post Modern War: Killing for Ratings
zephy1
by  zephy1
Why is a country considered primitive if its population is actually growing?
louse zoo
by  louse zoo
Cato Institute Rates Nations For Human Freedom
Canadian Freeloaders (economist)
bigg topics