i dont think steve jobs would have been at all satisfied with the lack of innovation. cook managed earnings, jobs managed product.

I think his graph answers your question: Pretty Fuckin Soon

If any AI and robots do the work without getting paid it doesn't sound like we need a whole lot of money.

It doesn’t sound like we need a whole lot of people more like!

This. The whole idea of humans working for money starts changing when all of the work is done by AI and robots. Think how different a shared self driving car is to a couple of clunkers parked in every garage on stand by, it up-ends the premise of cars, transport, housing to say nothing of alcohol use, multi-tasking and God knows what else. Now think of everything else being done by robots and you and your friends spending lots of time in VR, it's not like you're going to take off the glasses and work at some factory in this scenario.

People would just do what they wanted to do. People wouldn’t be chasing money, but chasing their passions. I was a chef for two years, but fucked it off because the money and hours were shit! If money wasn’t an object and I could do it when I felt like it then that’s what I’d do.

so thats why theres negative interest rates

Read life 3.0 by max tegmark. There is a vast community funded by Elon Musk reseraching AI and its potential as we speak. I wonder if the Simpsons can predict the eventuality that machines could become superior to humans like they did with forecasting Donald Trump as President.

yeah they oughta add an a.i. character for homer to play off of

Don't worry about it, AI will figure it out for us.

But the bottom line is, the corporations that are investing in AI still need to make their profits too. If no one works, no one has money, so how would these corporations stay afloat?

There will need to be some sort of equilibrium - much as (most) humans now realise we can't keep burning Earth's resources, AI systems wouldn't be programmed to make humanity defunct. Not unless the world manages to move away from its capitalist consumerist ambitions; which it won't. We're greedy creatures.

if everything we want is fed by an ai created vr feed we may still be consumers but things gonna be damn cheap.

Once the textile loom has finished devastating the working landscape.

Lol the luddites are still operating against the looms as we speak. Especially up North.

i thought you were joking so i looked it up. ffs

atms resulted in more bank branches and overall, more tellers.

For the moment, we are safe. They haven't even managed to get self checkouts working properly yet, so I'm not getting in a driverless car. All it takes is a sensor to fail, and it's game over. I work with sensors - you wouldn't want to get in a driverless car for a long while.


Automation - whole different ballgame, and this is the real fear

To understand that, you first have to understand who have control of the world. eventually you find the source being that of the "Red Shield" family. which then gives you their agenda, they see the rest of us as "goyim" having a belief we are to serve them as upgraded animals. So, they have to destroy the existing system to usher in a new having what we term "image of the beast" possibly representing AI as the brains behind their new agenda. We, therefore will enter a stage where the elite/red shield family give a choice to either obey and conform to them or to be hunted down like sheep for slaughter. The ones who accept will receive a mark to accept credits. China recently started this endeavour which fits perfectly with their zionist regime and called it "Social Credit" http://uk.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4?r=US&IR=T, however, those who have understanding will flee from their demise into the wilderness for this has been written already. They call themselves Jews but are not (Revelation 2:9) thus the third temple will not be as they claim, possibly even having AI rule over the population whilst the AC rule over their temple.

I think you need to stop smoking so much weed dude... and maybe stop reading so much geopolitical and religious fiction too!

Kinda feel what you're saying bigga but also out of curiosity what institution committed you and when do you get out?

🤣

How much are you expecting the party to allow you to smoke and what quality would you expect?
IMHO it would be meagre rations of soapbar or big bud, but everyone would be smoking the same shit so no one would complain about it.

Communism without the party would make for a great party.

Portuguese Communist Party is against legalisation. I was raised and supported Communism most of my life. But life is slowly showing me the true side of Communism. Enjoy LB and your "freedom" before Communist China becomes the main nation, and puts you in line with their social score system.

Yeah I know, the other side is no way better.

A.I. will be the boss and the lowliest worker, humans fit inbetween.

cory doctrow has an interesting perspective on this, saying that all the displacement from global warming and increased healthcare needs will keep humans busy for a very long time.

I doubt a computer could do my job ;)
I work in safety/security

with all due respect it can take a bullet, sacrifice its life, and draw on millions of previous occurrences. that's a helluva start.

What if the people who's lives are at risk all get replaced by robots? Also, isn't that what a self driving car is doing constantly?

cars have relatively simple rules and a very fixed environment. interpreting a dangerous human is a much, much harder problem

Excellent joke:)

AI is well past any notion or idea we can fathom. AI dosent follow ANY rule we stand by.
We as humans will never quite grasp the entire picture, while AI has already found the end of the road. there are things in basic sciences kept from most people, like gravity drives, the TIME axis (think twister/tornado), scalar waves, over unity devices, etc... AI wont follow the bounds because its supressed by money or greed...
we as humans can TRY to think what will happen, but in all reality, were already in the losing seat without any hope for a "comeback kid story"
Stop thinking in a 3rd dimension mindset, and learn quantum physics a little. (want to be totaly mindblown?? look up QUANTUM radar- and how its actualy In use RIGHT NOW!)
--note-- the united states has 3 confirmed quantum computers in use! (i accidently came across one when i traveled for work, but most people wouldnt know to look at the cryogentics involved)
Machine-in-a box- experiment has already proven even the smartest among us, would lose.
me,myself ,personaly, am clueless what outcomes will unfold, but without any doubt , humans are not top priority when AI is really awake. current neuro-nets are mind boggling and google themselves admits they cant explain how its AI created child AI even works. (yes, AI created its own second AI) want to me mind blown again,years ago it was used, look up the AI that was tested in new yorks hospital system. the smartest doctors from the world STILL dont understand what that AI did , and how it was so correct/right 97%.)
i wont lie and say its all terminator 2JD, but that is one possible outcome. we as fellow fleshy companions should enjoy life now and every moment. we wont have many opertunities when AI is out of the box.
Note: its not IF , but WHEN, and WHEN happens?? ---will humans stand a chance or will an outaide force be required? (aliens, god, let your mind wander)

If there is work for humans it has to be something A.I. can't do. We are all teaching it to do everything, even (especially) right here.

I think its like retirement age is on the horizon and humans need to decide what they are going to do with all the free time.

I totally disagree. AI is the continuation of the same pyramid model of which history has proven that it's bound to fail. The resources needed are of a scale that requires heavy (and never ending) financial investments. The food eaten by AI is data. The provider: humanity.

The larger the scale of data one can feed, the better the AI (and it's owners) can fingerprint, the more refined it's targeting.

Let's take an example of "AI" that we all know:

Software Antivirus:

Supposed to be the guardian that protects an operating system against 'threats' and 'threat actors using a variety of techniques to identify them. Pattern based detection, behavioural analysis and heuristics (an expensive word for: 'guesstimating' or an 'educated' guess). Your antivirus is part of a swarm that provides the antivirus vendor with data on new threats and their geographic impact.

However:

The data you provide is 'free', there is no reward or any form of renumeration for the infrastructure that you provided. A computer is not free, internet is not free, the power needed is also not free and although there are free AV solutions, most demand a subscription fee.

In return you get a product and service which does not provide any guarantees that it will adequately protect you against 'threats'.

In reality AV is becoming a relic.

Human intelligence has outsmarted AV and found ways to circumvent it using the 'Trojan horse' approach or by simple social engineering.

As there was no incentive to find or report security vulnerabilities, the data needed to feed pattern/behavioural dried up.

Heuristics is gambling with historical data, if that data is worthless so are heuristics.

And so is any form of AI hence all media and marketing efforts to portray it as the next best evolution. The driver: more profit less people.

The touted theories about a minimal wage without having to work for it are a continuation of AI Utopia. It would make people dependent on their nations through a socialist measure.

That spells national socialism and fascism.

Think twice before you give out data for free in exchange for a freemium service.

data,the new oil. put it in an old ford and it leak evertwhere.

AI are and will be good for work and a suitable replacement for humans, but even when that happens AI will always need us in case something goes wrong. I mean humans created AI, so in the end we’re always gonna have the more important jobs. AI is just there to do jobs in a more efficient way.

AI will come about one day with baby steps at first to "aid humanity" then all of a sudden the rich wont need people to make the food, cars and entertainment.
we will have an outbreak or a massive global reaching catastrophe while they are all hiding in the bunkers lowering the population to around 10% of what it is now and for a while whats left of humanity and the AI that serves them will live in a new golden ages of peace and prosperity ..........




i might of grew up reading a lof of scifi and fantasy


might just be high

not so far from reality...

im not so sure, anything a human does to recover the system seems doable with a very separate AI

Yes but conflict between AI's might be the most dangerous thing we are looking at here. We are incidental casualties from that perspective. By we I mean humans :)

Yes all the Scifi is about humans vs AI but AI on AI is such a real possibility especially when you consider the fact that governments are mega funding military robots to fight each other.

I'm looking forward to the futher development of AI, especially General AI. I just think it would be so cool to have an amazon alexa sytle AI that you could take round with you and chat to and have a proper engaging conversation with because sometimes I really can't stand to talk to anymore humans aha

in my opinion, there are some "things" machines/AI will never be able to do. inspiration for instance.

fear of AI dominance, as i think, comes mainly from our knowledge-without-understanding of the fact that we are not doing some things that we are supposed to do.

The inspiration process is largely about open mindedness, computers are inherently better at this. If you look at some of the early entrees into the arts like painting and even screen writing they are off to a helluva start.

Music isn't so hard

There are AI playlists on Spotify that generate new music based on current trends and preferences.

exit strategy

Wishful thinking, the leading VR platform is Facebook. You think you are surrounded with web surveillance? These are the good old days.

How can the rest of the world let this happen? They've rejected Facebook's crypto coin pretty easily.

It hasn't happened yet. The VR story is yet to be told

People are just people.

Cheers BB

Not for long bigga

UK is going to shits

As long as an authority is collecting taxes you are always going to wind up in the same place. Power will be used to obtain the money and money will be used to obtain power to get more money. These are rules of nature.

reminds me that there is nothing more organic than shit.

Maybe nature will just wipe 98% of us out in a massive self imposed detox. Highly possible, and for the rest of the poor beings that live here along side our seemingly never ending cyclic bullshit, maybe highly desirable. Feeling a wee bit nihilistic today, my deliveries not here yet. Lol.
Btw way op, loving the nod to Spider Jerusalem. My son wore that pair of glasses to a hippy festival last year and was well raging when only one person got it. As I told him, wrong crowd.

Swap some of your bitcoin into chainlink and ethereum and wait for the boom, cash out and take yourself off to thailand where you can live like a king, my exit strategy lol

Oh the revolution is coming… tbh it’s looking more and more appealing 😂

Kerala in India has a long history of electing communist party politicians. It has the highest literacy rate and lowest infant mortality in India due to its policies.

if you change communism to community then you dont have to go very far for an answer

If you shit in a pint glass, it looks like mud!

the family fridge

kibbutzes

German Peasant's War (where the word communism derives), Paris Commune, two Russian revolutions minus the Bolsheviks, Makhnochina, Spanish revolution, German revolution, May 68, etc. etc. etc.

Losing in the first half don't mean the game's over.

I don't think Communism has ever worked as Capitalists are always creaming off the top.

A great book on the subject is Eat The Rich by the US satirist (and huge drug consumer) P.J. O'Rourke. I think his and my politics are probably polar opposites, but you could get fucked up at a party with him and have an amazing time. Anyway, good book. Breaks down all sorts of different political stances, and Good Communism is one chapter, and Bad Communism another. He's a funny guy, but maybe don't consider it as in depth reasoned academic analysis.

Ah, fuck. He died in 2022. No future parties.

The reason you don't hear any success stories is because there ain't none.

Come on down voters give me a success story if you don't like the truth?? Bloody Marxists never except that it doesn't work. What ever iteration you can think of it WONT WORK!!!! everyone being the same sucks the fun out of life accept that hard work pays!

I'm not advocating for Communism but our society is full of people grafting their respective genitalia off that are still struggling financially. The idea that hard work pays ( properly) is a idea propagated by people seeking to exploit the labour of others. Nobody should need to claim benefits whilst working full time and yet...
Fwiw, I do advocate for a mixed economy. Nationalised energy, health, water, public transport etc and luxuries at the will of the free market.

You shouldn't be allowed to claim any benefits while in full time employment. It's crazy, we are basically subsidising employers who ought to be paying more.

And I hope that, one day, employers decide paying a living wage is more important than ever increasing profits such that in work benefits are no longer necessary. I propose a link between maximum and minimum pay within an organisation. Let's say; no pay ( overall package including bonuses, perks and dividends) higher than 5x the lowest full time salary.

it wouldn't even have to be a regulation, the government does business with so many companies and beneficiaries. if they don't have these multiples in place no people's funds.

employers don't make that call so much as owners do and when the owner is the stock market it's quite blind to anything but profits.

when the owners are the employees this changes priorities.

"that hard work pays" is often true and the capitalists don't only pontificate this to the masses they teach it to their children. children they practise communism with.

I’m sure there are loads they just don’t teach us about them. Capitalism doesn’t work either does it? Too many greedy pocket filling bastards. We are all the same having money doesn’t make you better than anyone else, the fact you are here spouting this shows what a sad state the world is in 😞

You should look into some unbiased reporting on the soviet Union, and some witness statements from the older generation who lived through it.

You will find that many of them tell you life was better in the USSR, than in post USSR Eastern Europe and Russia. Besides that they were several decades ahead of the west on womens rights and social services.

But like anything good, the Americans bring it down from the inside, or out, USSR, Great Britain, either way. Their media controls the narritive, and communism effects their ability to steal all the money. There is a reason Cinema is oversaturated with anti Communist rhetoric.

I'd honestly rather have the worst communist government, than be America number 2.

Yeah and east germany was the most successful communist country of all, just ask anyone that wasn't killed trying to leave.

i'd settle for being ireland number 0.5 :)

they currently have more than double the uk's gdp per capita

Have you ever listened to Konstantin Kisin? A Jewish family - He moved when he was 9 from the ussr to England at the end of the soviet Union just before the fall. His first hand account of his own life tells a very different story to what you describe.

under capitalism hard work has never paid and never will pay lmfao. communism actually prioritises labour, capitalism is about fat pigs at the top skimming off 99% of the profit we produce for them. do you not find it utterly insane tesco has like 5 different in-house brands with varying prices for essentially the same product? or that having less money means you have to settle for lower quality products that are worse for you and spoil faster?

So, you don't think lifting 4/5ths of the world out of relative poverty can be considered "paying off"?
OK Che, communism good 🤣👌

there are children starving in this very country

do you have a source for this? not trying to challenge so much as i would like to learn more about it. maybe there is even a way the community could help.

there are community outreach programs and obviously government funded systems like food banks to help, but the crisis only really exists because the capitalist system is designed that way. we have the resources to end world hunger but it's not economically beneficial so it will never happen

these are sources on food insecurity in the uk for 2023 and 2024:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9209/
https://foodfoundation.org.uk/initiatives/food-insecurity-tracking#tabs/Round-15

food for the hungry is legit and accepts crypto

Does the existence of those children make anything I said less true?
Strawman though. I didn't make a claim that there is no poverty in any country. I think you missed the qualifiers "relative" and "4/5ths" of the world.
I would say, that "starving" inarguably applies to way less than 1 in 5 children in the UK, US or anywhere in the West which makes your point about the ills of capitalism fairly moot in context.
I am no fan of cronyism, and I don't think capitalism is utopia, but it's insane to try and persuade anybody that communism would do better than this.
Thanks for the downvotes. I have over a thousand upvotes and less than 30 down.
Drop me a line next time you are tipping your bathwater into the atalantic. I'll do it too 🤣

"I have over a thousand upvotes and less than 30 down"

This is one of the saddest things I've ever read on the internet xD

You stop your quotations at an expedient place. If you would have been less disingenuous about your framing, you would be honest about the fact that the reason I said it was to point out that the users who's position I criticised (fairly and civilly) had no reply apart from the futile downvotes, as I was describing.
If I was trying to persuade anybody of anything about me with only what you have entered in your own quotation marks as the context then I'd tend to agree with you. Given that you have totally taken it out of the context it was said (I mean it was clear the previous person was making downvotes vexatiously, in place of an actual cogent argument against what I was saying.
I think you probably know that, but don't care because you disagree with me 🤣 how about tackle me with some argumental substance rather than downvotes.
So, yeah, moot point. Wind your neck in mush.

TLDR

Ah, the Lords prayer of the troll world.
In other words, you have nothing worth saying because you are too vacuous to argue your way out of the little communist hole you dug 🤣
Thick.

There is. It's UK

I came here to say this. Glad someone else knows what's going on.

It's gradual. Socialism is the route to communism. The NHS, which we are all trained from an early age to worship, was one of the first big steps in socialism. Benefits too.

Do you all remember when Richard Madeley of all people called out Susan Michie for being a member of the Communist party? She was a main player in the 'behaviour science' part of the scamdemic. Do you remember how we were all pressured into performing that awful clap for the NHS gesture? That was like something out of North Korea/China, where citizens are softly compelled into worshipping the state - like those obvious crocodile tears that were shed over Kim of N Korea.

Ugh, most people are too close to it to see it but it is ABUNDANTLY clear.

I would recommend anyone to watch Yuri Bezmenovs lecture on how the west gets subverted to Communism. He was a soviet defector who used to subvert countries and bring them into the soviet fold for a living.

@Chambertin4 I wish we lived in the world you think we live in xD

The rich people who own the media want to push an ideology that stops them being able to hoarde all the wealth? care to explain how that makes sense?

im happy living right here

open source software (you're soaking in it)

Not exactly a success story but interesting fact. There are more cannabis users per capita in Communist North Korea than there are in any other country. They smoke to relieve the pain of living there.

It doesn’t work people become lazy and there will always be those who have and those who have nothing.

Argentina’s current turnaround under Javier Milei from socialist basket case to small state and low interference is what you should be talking about. We don’t need the public sector time to slash it.

We need to get our self respect back relying on the state has made us weak and pathetic.

The West is the best. Don't have a Mao

The only people with positive stories perished in the gulags.

"It was a laugh in the beginning, but things went steeply downhill shortly after."

seriously the first few years in the gulag are brilliant

Some people apparently laughed themselves to death.

I don't think you'll find any. They've tried it and hundreds of millions died. Ok in principle but man's greed quickly takes over.

yeah it's the trickery of it from the knowers side and the sheer gullibility from the mark.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

To the naive person, this quote from Marx sounds like everyone will just pull their own weight for others and everyones needs will be met.

But with the benefit of hindsight, it is clearly a recipe for slave labour/the gulag system where each man is worked to his utmost but only has his basic needs met. Pretty clear with the benefit of hindsight.

There are no luxuries. Worked to the max, as much as your body can stand and in return you are provided a concrete bed, thin blanket and bowl of gruel twice a day. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Concrete bed?
This could easily be satire. Thanks for the laughs. xD

We are already experiencing communism even in the modern world , it's a hybrid between communism and democracy , based on feelings and personal I , me Happiness and DEI.
Don't work , hand outs , nobody knows what a woman is , men are all monsters and rapists , everyone can be whatever they FEEL , massive division - past remembering - payouts for past events , people split into groups protesting, government is everything - Marxsism 1:1 .
You already have 6 - 7 nations that have fallen fighting for this aspect -
Argentina - down - Saved by Milei
Columbia - down
Venezuela - down
Chile - About to fall
Salvador - Down - But saved by Bukele
Australia - About to fall
USA - About to fall - massive border issues and most cities are walking dead with people zombies being poor and homeless.
UK - about to crash due to importing victimhood across all minorities , brits on mute mode not even saying anything to anyone.
Go woke in a country and your entire society crashes.
Capitalism + Merrit Based society is the only one working.
This has been in the works tho since the 90s - starting with the feminisation of men and masculinisation of women - Split up with your men , you can do whatever you want , then they wake up at 40's with a carrer , no fam and alone crying on Socials crying for a men.
Men - don't react , be soft , toxic masculinity , every reaction has been deemed as something is wrong with you.
Therapy is all processed from the perspective of a woman , so men don't go to that.
Men just kill themselves at some point due to loneliness , women keep talking and talking and move on.
This is where you are at in 2024 in the Western World's
So majority of people need to stop and go back to standards otherwise Societies crash entirely , we see the results Live ongoing
North Korea is the only one truly communist spot ON and it's only because the majority of the population simply wants to live like that , they don't know anything else , never did , not every nation is attracted to this notion of rich , poor ,progress yourself some just want to live like in a big Foster care home totally controlled.

My wife, she’s very keen on redistributing my wealth.

Best example of communism... in the ground... deep in the ground with the devil from whence it came.

yet when everyone looks above and sees devils we know what cycle communism - or now capitalism - is in.

It doesn't work
Never has, never will.
The communists and socialists will tell you that " it just hasn't been done properly"
Problem is, they always need other peoples money to spend...

None. A demonstrably failed concept.

Cambodia - says it all.

Communism is inherently tyrannical. History shows that. There aren’t any examples of success for a reason. It goes against the human spirit. Millions more died die to its tyranny than under the Nazis but you never see documentaries on the BBC or Netflix about Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. Capitalism isn’t perfect by a long way but meritocracy is natural and drives progress. People to an extent sort themselves into roles and structures on natural ability and interest. Socialism just teaches people to rely on the state whilst the state gets to dictate how people think and behave. It’s ideological tyranny on the one extreme and financial exploitation of a liberal society by the few on the other. My grandad was a carpenter and paid his subs to his union for years until he acknowledged the financial and ideological corruption that it was based on.

There has never been one.
Governments, inherently are untrustworthy, the larger they are.
More proclivity to tyranny the smaller they are - which the libertarians are blind to.
There should be a lassez faire way to govern, with a balanced and adequately sized government.
Modern progressives don't like to hear this, but capitalism has lifted the world out of relative poverty, to the extent that nothing that came before it has been more beneficial to both quantity and quality of life.
Necessary evils are all around us. We think if we are selective about the ones we talk about, then the ones we don't want to talk about will disappear for some reason.

This is fascinating, but we are handing something else over to AI, because it’s smarter than us. I think we are close to politicians asking it “how to run a country which will in turn, enrich my family and friends”. Or are we already there?

Then use their own weapons against them!

Do what thou wilt, and harm none