Total abundance from our machine producers.

if you take the perspective of the past haven't we already achieved this?

Why does it always have to fall under some strict labels that are always massive trigger words for certain people

can we just not label it anything and just fucking make logical decisions that are in the best interest of everyone instead of a few, fuck the strict criteria and labels

Carl saying "I don't know what a socialist is" at the start of the video is every conversation i've had about this with friends or other people, always try to immediately label me something and condense my views into a single word that they can then label me with

Feudalism is many times older than capitalism, and ordained by God. Still fell like a sack of shit.

It'll have a different name and iconography but communism still the only alternative. Just no leaders, no parties, no states, max automation.

Communism fails by the idea of implementation of communism - Don't you think that someone still needs to make sure that its enforced ... Thereby creating back parties, leaders, States and Hierarchies of governing ..... I am not sure but its just a thought.

Sorry did not mean to intervene.

i think this is the potential of decentralisation. it's not perfect but bitcoin has no enforcer but code.

The soviet in the tongue in cheek Soviet Union, means workers' councils. One person, one vote, with an elected delegate representing that be recalled anytime. One council for each workplace, and so on, all the way up. By function, it'd preclude states, parties or leaders.

capitalism is an economic system, and an excellent one at that. it is not, however, a political, philosophical or ethical system. adam smith himself pointed out that without temper from (for him, christian) ethics it would become monstrous. obviously, nobody believes any of that hypocritical, puerile (christian) shite anymore, but that is what needs replacing - the moral component. hard right ideologues that think the market knows best, and that money is some sort of god to be worshipped are stupid shits, and have been shown to be. they have fucked up everything they have touched and only crazy frightened old people don't see that. do not forget, though that socialists have not just fucked up everything they have touched, they have murdered, oppressed and starved people in ways that ghengis khan would have been ashamed of. capitalism will work fine once we all realise that being richer than everyone else is a mug's game and does not make you happy. we all just need to get by and look after each other, and i think we'll find that if that's what we want to use it for, capitalism's actually pretty good for purpose. this is all happening anyway, you don't need to do anything. how much shit gets fucked up in the meantime by greedy stupid dickheads who think enumerated economic success is any measure of anything other than what a selfish worthless shit you're prepared to be, or that it will ever make anyone actually happy, well, we'll see. in the meantime, live your life and stop trying to find something easy to blame for what's wrong with it. politicians will not save us, maybe if we stop asking them to they'll go back to doing their actual jobs (running the civil service, justice system and defence) and stop fucking everything up instead. maybe if we all stop glorifying the wealthy and powerful, they'll stop even being arsed to be wealthy and powerful (i mean, it looks like a fucking nightmare to me - why the fuck would you bother if you weren't being egged on the whole time and told that it's the only way anyone matters) and we can all just get on with looking out for each other and fostering the sorts of communities that actually do make people happy. it won't happen overnight, and it won't fix everything, but it won't happen at all if we keep expecting miracles and keep trying to tear down everything that lets us live better than people ever have. capitalism does not suck, it where all of our prosperity and freedom comes from, it is why we are not living in the squalor, violence and oppression of the middle ages any more - stop trying to tear it down, just live better, take moral responsibilty for your own life and we will all have the moral high ground to shame people who accumulate wealth and power beyond what is healthy. eventually. in about 4026. if we do not all burn or starve first. there isn't really an alternative, though... and, i mean you can order weed on the fucking internet these days!!! whaddya want out of life???

"and, i mean you can order weed on the fucking internet these days!!! whaddya want out of life??" yeah exactly wtf is wrong with people lol

Start building guillotine napping stations for all billionaires to have a nice lil lay down, acquire and distribute the hoarded resources. Job done. EDIT: to highlight i am being deliberately OTT btw n not literally advocating mass execution. but it does feel like this whole system needs an overhaul, crazy how much the top 1% has hoarded compared to the rest of the world 🤷‍♂️ how is that just?

"distribute the hoarded resources" exactly, it really is wealth hoarding. Just make wealth cap, a big one $300M... How many fucking yachts do you need, how many houses...etc. Once your wonderful business acumen took you to cap level you get a medal, respect and you go onto super wall of best humans ie elite celebrities and your additional profits get distributed to less fortunate who we're not lucky to be born smart or healthy or rich or whatever.. It's just life lottery most the time nothing to do with your efforts.. Your success can not be justified.. You don't choose your genes... Is there really good argument against wealth cap?

not much of the rich's wealth is in luxury items. it's mostly capital for production.

We need to try to start standing up for what is right and see through what the political elites are implementing all over Europe.

Between the Bilderberg group and the likes of George Soros who funds all the chaos and gets very rich from the volatility that is creates in the markets.

Every time there is a major problem all the government does is rush in new laws to clamp us down even more, they are not interested in harmony it does not fit there narrative they like to divide and conquer and keep us in small groups as we are easier to control.

The Catholic church is taking it up the Gary glitter also along with the Church of England who are just as bad all whilst the UN seems to be building an army in Europe.

This is a by proxy war we are in and it is only going to get worse from here the only way we can stop this is by all standing together as humans and taking on this tyranny.

There are people being found frozen to death in cars in the UK at the moment , big groups of people living in tents in the woods right now ffs!!.

There is an evil agenda at play that these sick inbreed elites are trying to hide from us all and unless we all stand together we are all going to get screwed even more.

We would rather watch sky sports and fuck about on FB and Insta than get off out backsides and do what is right.

The whole thing stinks and needs to be called out and stop calling people racist for pointing out the truth.

I think capitalism ends in so much abundance that no one gives a shit.

0% interest rates, meme stocks, puts and calls going up simultaneously, sure looks like an end game scenario.

We're in the widening gap phase now for sure, or at least its becoming clear how far the gap already is.

The final step in every Marxism based cycle is the uprising of the proletariat, so that's the fun bit we need to look towards.. lol :)

WS

The big flaw of capitalism..
One day all the super rich (super useless) will realize the world seizes to go round without ground level hard workers and skilled people.

you mean robots, right? ;0

I doubt Communism unfolded exactly how he predicted... so at least he got it half right.

Cheers BB 😁👍🍻💚

Not quite. "The working class cannot simply lay hold of the ready-made state machinery, and wield it for its own purposes".

Too true 😅

i dont think steve jobs would have been at all satisfied with the lack of innovation. cook managed earnings, jobs managed product.

If any AI and robots do the work without getting paid it doesn't sound like we need a whole lot of money.

It doesn’t sound like we need a whole lot of people more like!

This. The whole idea of humans working for money starts changing when all of the work is done by AI and robots. Think how different a shared self driving car is to a couple of clunkers parked in every garage on stand by, it up-ends the premise of cars, transport, housing to say nothing of alcohol use, multi-tasking and God knows what else. Now think of everything else being done by robots and you and your friends spending lots of time in VR, it's not like you're going to take off the glasses and work at some factory in this scenario.

so thats why theres negative interest rates

Don't worry about it, AI will figure it out for us.

But the bottom line is, the corporations that are investing in AI still need to make their profits too. If no one works, no one has money, so how would these corporations stay afloat?

There will need to be some sort of equilibrium - much as (most) humans now realise we can't keep burning Earth's resources, AI systems wouldn't be programmed to make humanity defunct. Not unless the world manages to move away from its capitalist consumerist ambitions; which it won't. We're greedy creatures.

if everything we want is fed by an ai created vr feed we may still be consumers but things gonna be damn cheap.

Read life 3.0 by max tegmark. There is a vast community funded by Elon Musk reseraching AI and its potential as we speak. I wonder if the Simpsons can predict the eventuality that machines could become superior to humans like they did with forecasting Donald Trump as President.

yeah they oughta add an a.i. character for homer to play off of

atms resulted in more bank branches and overall, more tellers.

Once the textile loom has finished devastating the working landscape.

Lol the luddites are still operating against the looms as we speak. Especially up North.

i thought you were joking so i looked it up. ffs

For the moment, we are safe. They haven't even managed to get self checkouts working properly yet, so I'm not getting in a driverless car. All it takes is a sensor to fail, and it's game over. I work with sensors - you wouldn't want to get in a driverless car for a long while.


Automation - whole different ballgame, and this is the real fear

To understand that, you first have to understand who have control of the world. eventually you find the source being that of the "Red Shield" family. which then gives you their agenda, they see the rest of us as "goyim" having a belief we are to serve them as upgraded animals. So, they have to destroy the existing system to usher in a new having what we term "image of the beast" possibly representing AI as the brains behind their new agenda. We, therefore will enter a stage where the elite/red shield family give a choice to either obey and conform to them or to be hunted down like sheep for slaughter. The ones who accept will receive a mark to accept credits. China recently started this endeavour which fits perfectly with their zionist regime and called it "Social Credit" http://uk.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4?r=US&IR=T, however, those who have understanding will flee from their demise into the wilderness for this has been written already. They call themselves Jews but are not (Revelation 2:9) thus the third temple will not be as they claim, possibly even having AI rule over the population whilst the AC rule over their temple.

I think you need to stop smoking so much weed dude... and maybe stop reading so much geopolitical and religious fiction too!

monero is :)

Seems like negative interest rates are post scarcity for money.

finding little biggy :)

a pipe dream, even with free replication of everything people find a way to have scarcity. look at what people pay for things in game worlds.

Something nfts really hate

When you’re waiting for your pack from little biggy but it’s not in todays post.

Star Trek

shortage of credible acting, don't that count for anything?

I like how there's no seatbelts on the Enterprise, even though they get hit by something and the crew gets knocked on their arses in virtually every episode.

Star Trek Discovery has a more stringent HSE who has brought in new seatbelt regulations for the safety of the crew

Aren’t there several episodes where the arms of Kirk’s chair lock down across his thighs? (yep, sounds pretty ridiculous now I’ve typed it 😳)…maybe it was in the films?….defo happened or I’m giving up weed!! 😵‍💫😉

impossibility

the need for scarcity might not ever go away. scarcity triggers a human need that seems to defy rational economic theory, look at early nfts.

A.I. will be the boss and the lowliest worker, humans fit inbetween.

cory doctrow has an interesting perspective on this, saying that all the displacement from global warming and increased healthcare needs will keep humans busy for a very long time.

I doubt a computer could do my job ;)
I work in safety/security

Can this do a dynamic risk assessment on the spot when someone's life is at risk? ;)

with all due respect it can take a bullet, sacrifice its life, and draw on millions of previous occurrences. that's a helluva start.

What if the people who's lives are at risk all get replaced by robots? Also, isn't that what a self driving car is doing constantly?

cars have relatively simple rules and a very fixed environment. interpreting a dangerous human is a much, much harder problem

Excellent joke:)

AI is well past any notion or idea we can fathom. AI dosent follow ANY rule we stand by.
We as humans will never quite grasp the entire picture, while AI has already found the end of the road. there are things in basic sciences kept from most people, like gravity drives, the TIME axis (think twister/tornado), scalar waves, over unity devices, etc... AI wont follow the bounds because its supressed by money or greed...
we as humans can TRY to think what will happen, but in all reality, were already in the losing seat without any hope for a "comeback kid story"
Stop thinking in a 3rd dimension mindset, and learn quantum physics a little. (want to be totaly mindblown?? look up QUANTUM radar- and how its actualy In use RIGHT NOW!)
--note-- the united states has 3 confirmed quantum computers in use! (i accidently came across one when i traveled for work, but most people wouldnt know to look at the cryogentics involved)
Machine-in-a box- experiment has already proven even the smartest among us, would lose.
me,myself ,personaly, am clueless what outcomes will unfold, but without any doubt , humans are not top priority when AI is really awake. current neuro-nets are mind boggling and google themselves admits they cant explain how its AI created child AI even works. (yes, AI created its own second AI) want to me mind blown again,years ago it was used, look up the AI that was tested in new yorks hospital system. the smartest doctors from the world STILL dont understand what that AI did , and how it was so correct/right 97%.)
i wont lie and say its all terminator 2JD, but that is one possible outcome. we as fellow fleshy companions should enjoy life now and every moment. we wont have many opertunities when AI is out of the box.
Note: its not IF , but WHEN, and WHEN happens?? ---will humans stand a chance or will an outaide force be required? (aliens, god, let your mind wander)

If there is work for humans it has to be something A.I. can't do. We are all teaching it to do everything, even (especially) right here.

I think its like retirement age is on the horizon and humans need to decide what they are going to do with all the free time.

I totally disagree. AI is the continuation of the same pyramid model of which history has proven that it's bound to fail. The resources needed are of a scale that requires heavy (and never ending) financial investments. The food eaten by AI is data. The provider: humanity.

The larger the scale of data one can feed, the better the AI (and it's owners) can fingerprint, the more refined it's targeting.

Let's take an example of "AI" that we all know:

Software Antivirus:

Supposed to be the guardian that protects an operating system against 'threats' and 'threat actors using a variety of techniques to identify them. Pattern based detection, behavioural analysis and heuristics (an expensive word for: 'guesstimating' or an 'educated' guess). Your antivirus is part of a swarm that provides the antivirus vendor with data on new threats and their geographic impact.

However:

The data you provide is 'free', there is no reward or any form of renumeration for the infrastructure that you provided. A computer is not free, internet is not free, the power needed is also not free and although there are free AV solutions, most demand a subscription fee.

In return you get a product and service which does not provide any guarantees that it will adequately protect you against 'threats'.

In reality AV is becoming a relic.

Human intelligence has outsmarted AV and found ways to circumvent it using the 'Trojan horse' approach or by simple social engineering.

As there was no incentive to find or report security vulnerabilities, the data needed to feed pattern/behavioural dried up.

Heuristics is gambling with historical data, if that data is worthless so are heuristics.

And so is any form of AI hence all media and marketing efforts to portray it as the next best evolution. The driver: more profit less people.

The touted theories about a minimal wage without having to work for it are a continuation of AI Utopia. It would make people dependent on their nations through a socialist measure.

That spells national socialism and fascism.

Think twice before you give out data for free in exchange for a freemium service.

data,the new oil. put it in an old ford and it leak evertwhere.

AI are and will be good for work and a suitable replacement for humans, but even when that happens AI will always need us in case something goes wrong. I mean humans created AI, so in the end we’re always gonna have the more important jobs. AI is just there to do jobs in a more efficient way.

AI will come about one day with baby steps at first to "aid humanity" then all of a sudden the rich wont need people to make the food, cars and entertainment.
we will have an outbreak or a massive global reaching catastrophe while they are all hiding in the bunkers lowering the population to around 10% of what it is now and for a while whats left of humanity and the AI that serves them will live in a new golden ages of peace and prosperity ..........




i might of grew up reading a lof of scifi and fantasy


might just be high

not so far from reality...

Yes but conflict between AI's might be the most dangerous thing we are looking at here. We are incidental casualties from that perspective. By we I mean humans :)

Yes all the Scifi is about humans vs AI but AI on AI is such a real possibility especially when you consider the fact that governments are mega funding military robots to fight each other.

I'm looking forward to the futher development of AI, especially General AI. I just think it would be so cool to have an amazon alexa sytle AI that you could take round with you and chat to and have a proper engaging conversation with because sometimes I really can't stand to talk to anymore humans aha

in my opinion, there are some "things" machines/AI will never be able to do. inspiration for instance.

fear of AI dominance, as i think, comes mainly from our knowledge-without-understanding of the fact that we are not doing some things that we are supposed to do.

The inspiration process is largely about open mindedness, computers are inherently better at this. If you look at some of the early entrees into the arts like painting and even screen writing they are off to a helluva start.

Music isn't so hard

There are AI playlists on Spotify that generate new music based on current trends and preferences.

The reason you don't hear any success stories is because there ain't none.

Come on down voters give me a success story if you don't like the truth?? Bloody Marxists never except that it doesn't work. What ever iteration you can think of it WONT WORK!!!! everyone being the same sucks the fun out of life accept that hard work pays!

I'm not advocating for Communism but our society is full of people grafting their respective genitalia off that are still struggling financially. The idea that hard work pays ( properly) is a idea propagated by people seeking to exploit the labour of others. Nobody should need to claim benefits whilst working full time and yet...
Fwiw, I do advocate for a mixed economy. Nationalised energy, health, water, public transport etc and luxuries at the will of the free market.

You shouldn't be allowed to claim any benefits while in full time employment. It's crazy, we are basically subsidising employers who ought to be paying more.

And I hope that, one day, employers decide paying a living wage is more important than ever increasing profits such that in work benefits are no longer necessary. I propose a link between maximum and minimum pay within an organisation. Let's say; no pay ( overall package including bonuses, perks and dividends) higher than 5x the lowest full time salary.

it wouldn't even have to be a regulation, the government does business with so many companies and beneficiaries. if they don't have these multiples in place no people's funds.

"that hard work pays" is often true and the capitalists don't only pontificate this to the masses they teach it to their children. children they practise communism with.

I’m sure there are loads they just don’t teach us about them. Capitalism doesn’t work either does it? Too many greedy pocket filling bastards. We are all the same having money doesn’t make you better than anyone else, the fact you are here spouting this shows what a sad state the world is in 😞

You should look into some unbiased reporting on the soviet Union, and some witness statements from the older generation who lived through it.

You will find that many of them tell you life was better in the USSR, than in post USSR Eastern Europe and Russia. Besides that they were several decades ahead of the west on womens rights and social services.

But like anything good, the Americans bring it down from the inside, or out, USSR, Great Britain, either way. Their media controls the narritive, and communism effects their ability to steal all the money. There is a reason Cinema is oversaturated with anti Communist rhetoric.

I'd honestly rather have the worst communist government, than be America number 2.

There is. It's UK

I came here to say this. Glad someone else knows what's going on.

It's gradual. Socialism is the route to communism. The NHS, which we are all trained from an early age to worship, was one of the first big steps in socialism. Benefits too.

Do you all remember when Richard Madeley of all people called out Susan Michie for being a member of the Communist party? She was a main player in the 'behaviour science' part of the scamdemic. Do you remember how we were all pressured into performing that awful clap for the NHS gesture? That was like something out of North Korea/China, where citizens are softly compelled into worshipping the state - like those obvious crocodile tears that were shed over Kim of N Korea.

Ugh, most people are too close to it to see it but it is ABUNDANTLY clear.

I would recommend anyone to watch Yuri Bezmenovs lecture on how the west gets subverted to Communism. He was a soviet defector who used to subvert countries and bring them into the soviet fold for a living.

@Chambertin4 I wish we lived in the world you think we live in xD

The rich people who own the media want to push an ideology that stops them being able to hoarde all the wealth? care to explain how that makes sense?

im happy living right here

Kerala in India has a long history of electing communist party politicians. It has the highest literacy rate and lowest infant mortality in India due to its policies.

if you change communism to community then you dont have to go very far for an answer

If you shit in a pint glass, it looks like mud!

the family fridge

kibbutzes

I don't think Communism has ever worked as Capitalists are always creaming off the top.

A great book on the subject is Eat The Rich by the US satirist (and huge drug consumer) P.J. O'Rourke. I think his and my politics are probably polar opposites, but you could get fucked up at a party with him and have an amazing time. Anyway, good book. Breaks down all sorts of different political stances, and Good Communism is one chapter, and Bad Communism another. He's a funny guy, but maybe don't consider it as in depth reasoned academic analysis.

Ah, fuck. He died in 2022. No future parties.

German Peasant's War (where the word communism derives), Paris Commune, two Russian revolutions minus the Bolsheviks, Makhnochina, Spanish revolution, German revolution, May 68, etc. etc. etc.

Losing in the first half don't mean the game's over.

We are already experiencing communism even in the modern world , it's a hybrid between communism and democracy , based on feelings and personal I , me Happiness and DEI.
Don't work , hand outs , nobody knows what a woman is , men are all monsters and rapists , everyone can be whatever they FEEL , massive division - past remembering - payouts for past events , people split into groups protesting, government is everything - Marxsism 1:1 .
You already have 6 - 7 nations that have fallen fighting for this aspect -
Argentina - down - Saved by Milei
Columbia - down
Venezuela - down
Chile - About to fall
Salvador - Down - But saved by Bukele
Australia - About to fall
USA - About to fall - massive border issues and most cities are walking dead with people zombies being poor and homeless.
UK - about to crash due to importing victimhood across all minorities , brits on mute mode not even saying anything to anyone.
Go woke in a country and your entire society crashes.
Capitalism + Merrit Based society is the only one working.
This has been in the works tho since the 90s - starting with the feminisation of men and masculinisation of women - Split up with your men , you can do whatever you want , then they wake up at 40's with a carrer , no fam and alone crying on Socials crying for a men.
Men - don't react , be soft , toxic masculinity , every reaction has been deemed as something is wrong with you.
Therapy is all processed from the perspective of a woman , so men don't go to that.
Men just kill themselves at some point due to loneliness , women keep talking and talking and move on.
This is where you are at in 2024 in the Western World's
So majority of people need to stop and go back to standards otherwise Societies crash entirely , we see the results Live ongoing
North Korea is the only one truly communist spot ON and it's only because the majority of the population simply wants to live like that , they don't know anything else , never did , not every nation is attracted to this notion of rich , poor ,progress yourself some just want to live like in a big Foster care home totally controlled.

Best example of communism... in the ground... deep in the ground with the devil from whence it came.

yet when everyone looks above and sees devils we know what cycle communism - or now capitalism - is in.

It doesn't work
Never has, never will.
The communists and socialists will tell you that " it just hasn't been done properly"
Problem is, they always need other peoples money to spend...

The West is the best. Don't have a Mao

Communism is inherently tyrannical. History shows that. There aren’t any examples of success for a reason. It goes against the human spirit. Millions more died die to its tyranny than under the Nazis but you never see documentaries on the BBC or Netflix about Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. Capitalism isn’t perfect by a long way but meritocracy is natural and drives progress. People to an extent sort themselves into roles and structures on natural ability and interest. Socialism just teaches people to rely on the state whilst the state gets to dictate how people think and behave. It’s ideological tyranny on the one extreme and financial exploitation of a liberal society by the few on the other. My grandad was a carpenter and paid his subs to his union for years until he acknowledged the financial and ideological corruption that it was based on.

The only people with positive stories perished in the gulags.

"It was a laugh in the beginning, but things went steeply downhill shortly after."

seriously the first few years in the gulag are brilliant

Some people apparently laughed themselves to death.

I don't think you'll find any. They've tried it and hundreds of millions died. Ok in principle but man's greed quickly takes over.

yeah it's the trickery of it from the knowers side and the sheer gullibility from the mark.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

To the naive person, this quote from Marx sounds like everyone will just pull their own weight for others and everyones needs will be met.

But with the benefit of hindsight, it is clearly a recipe for slave labour/the gulag system where each man is worked to his utmost but only has his basic needs met. Pretty clear with the benefit of hindsight.

There are no luxuries. Worked to the max, as much as your body can stand and in return you are provided a concrete bed, thin blanket and bowl of gruel twice a day. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

My wife, she’s very keen on redistributing my wealth.

None. A demonstrably failed concept.

Cambodia - says it all.

if anyone can parse this bs on wikipedia id love to see it