Hey, you have the Blues covered💙🍃

Shroom of The Loom have Blue Cheese at the moment ill add a link above....

TSM have some Blue Cheese too:
https://littlebiggy.com/link/YHXU0T

Eddys Hashbar has Blue Dream:
https://littlebiggy.com/link/FPYCvU

Hope this helps
💜💚👊🏻

Hey there,
Take a look at our Power Kush, It's been kept around the block for over 15 years so I believe it fits the old skool title ;)
Also got few grams of Grand daddy purp left

Tbh I bought the pax wasn't to impressed and end3d up getting the mighty plus and wouldn't bother with any of the others now but maybe wait and invest in the venty ? But my advice pay more now to avoid paying twice

Did exactly this, saved money by going for a cheaper alternative to the mighty...

now saving for a mighty.

🟣🟢🤦🏻‍♂️

All right B0W13

Everyone is different but the 2nd hand market is jumping with mighty vapes.

Mine was a steal barley used and still in box and accessories. Warranty unused but now registered under my details.

Cheers Dazzler, i have been keeping an eye on the used ones, with the dog deciding to fall to pieces recently and christmas around the corner it is likely ill be looking for a bargain.

MagicVaporizers have them new for 200 sheets and thats the one i was aiming for when the dog popped!

Sorry to hear about your dug 🥹 one of mine is 17 this year and aye Christmas 🎄 but that’s a rant for another day.

I keep an eye out as like you love a bargain. At the moment a decent next to newish mighty would be about £150 but like everything there is what it’s worth and then what people would pay.

if the bargain mighty did not come up I would have been getting an Angus. If you’re a terp chaser I think flavour wise is better than the mighty.

It retired my mates mighty. I’m my opinion very much overlooked as everyone has there eyes on the mighty.

Ill take a look, for me priority number one is it does the main job well, using for medical benefits as much as pleasure nowadays, if anything is going to overtake the mighty for me it will probably be the TinyMight2, as Polly puts it, its more of a ripper which sounds like it could be more suited to me.
I am Slack the Ripper!

Agree 100% that the difference is exactly as polly said.

I only use the dyna in the house. Don’t want to be looking like a crack head out and about.

I see come up from time to time but it’s not as common as mighty vapes 2nd hand. I’ll give you a shout if I see anything that looks in good condition and price 👌

Appreciate that and yeah, it really is an advantage nowadays not to look like a crackhead!
"Its woke gone mad" 😂

I was looking at the Dyna for my hashes but decided im such a clumsy twat ill burn myself everytime i use it!

Always a risk lol

But I have not used anything that even comes close to the hash hit off a dyna.

Not tried the new ones like the dani or anvil.

TI tip with a vaphit collar get that technique bang on 💨💨💨

Ok youre not helping my list stay modest!

So vape, dab pen, glass upgrade then dyna... sweet!

My list would be in a different order but aye.

DAB pen 🖊️- AIO rec vapes

I would hate to think what I spent on accessories never mind gear. Thank fuck for bargain hunting 👌

I was decided on the Coil King at one point but then i saw the Utillian 2, and then i saw... etc

Utillian the brand is owned by T-vape the review/shop front company and they shill them hard.

Highly biased reviews that lead you to believe the utillians are good devices, unfortunately they aren't.

Ahhh nice one, i did wonder how it can have as good as the reviews of its bigger brother, i do try and read a bunch of reviews in case im looking at sponsored reviews but i missed that, thank you, back to the coil king maybe for starters.

Fuckcombustion.com

They can be funny buggers on that site but you will typically find most vapes listed

Lol

Not sure the price of the other one but I did a topic on it.

I refer to it as dabs for beginners. I still use mine quite a bit. When I have concentrate. Again great dog walking companion.

I barred myself from looking for ages at looking ha ha ha

Slack the Ripper!🤣🤣…I’m nicking that!

Solid choice

If that’s the way you were thinking the Angus would have been a good shout if it was just for flower at a fraction of the price

Enjoy 💨💨💨💨

My mate has a Pax3 and I have a Mighty and in my opinion the Mighty is a lot better. Polly or Deadrabb1t can both lead you in the right direction with other options as I've only really used the Mighty consistently.

What sort of cash you looking to spend would be my first question as that will then narrow the field down.

What you going to use it for? Just flower ?


How you consuming the now?

Recently got the Angus, lots of flavour and hits like a train.
I like that you get a solid carry case, dosing capsules and other bits n bobs with it. Downside is it doesn’t come with batteries.

Sip or Rip?

The Mighty is a very flexible workhorse ideal for sipping…

The TinyMight2 is pocket ripper….

Im more of a ripper than a sipper so if something is going to overtake the Mighty in my mind it could be the TinyMight2.

I like how versatile the mighty is though.

🟣🟢

Now you have opened Pandora’s box lol 😂

Versatility as in with product or out and about?

Do you use or intend to use glass with said vape?

Because before I start answering the above question will save me typing ha ha ha Dynavap! Out of the capes that I have is king of the ring.

Well i was thinking of getting the vape sorted first as mine is not doing it for me, i use carts when im out with the pupper so it doesnt need to be super portable but im not up for a volcano or anything, maybe an entry level dab pen after vapes sorted then i was thinking up upgrading the bong after when thats done and had my eye on a similar set up to Rux's new toy, a freeze pipe with an e-nail dab thingyme that works with the glass.
reports are its very effective 😵‍💫

I like how that Angus looks not going to lie and looking at specs it looks competitive.

It is I have used both vapes and I would be happy with either one.

Don’t blame you on the others.

I prefer the in one e rigs like the core 2.0

Due to the dyna and butane I tend not to use it at “TV time” as the missies gives the eye. I use the IH but it’s not the same lol hence the other less noise vapes.

I love the wee bongs like the mini ripper 👌 and dyna. It’s my equivalent to having a drink at the weekend. Kids in bed ect ect

I do like the look of some of the in-one rigs, i have time to change my mind on that anyway, probably wont get the vape till the new year now and thats next on the never ending list of things i NEED!

Fuck you should see my wish list lol 😂

What the fox 🦊 said

I’ve had a lot of vapes, like a real lot, 90% are shite, if you want to vape and actually get high, conserve herb you need a desktop vape, I run a CH Flowerpot B1 Baller and it’s a different world to things like the mighty. There are so many good Baller vape options now the worlds your oyster.

Vapes are super subjective and while there are a lot of not great devices to say 90% are shite is a bit of a bold statement.

Baller vapes work well for people with high tolerance who want a big wack of weed.

Polly for example would pass out in the presence of a ball vape let alone get to use one

There are lots of really good vape devices nowdays and everyones needs are different

I don't mind the extraction of a ball vape, I personally don't like the hot coils or overall inefficiency of power usage compared to other options nowdays

Oy! 🤨

Those of us who have managed our tolerance sufficiently not to require the single lung incinerating explosive cough inducing uber extraction methods employed as a necessity by certain 🐰&🐸 are not to be mocked! (well, not much anyway 🦊)…

You getting bullied 😧

Yes!

The Extraction Gang keep running up and kicking my satchel!…they think they are so hard!

Although you better look out during break time:

“ and as to the S&B fanboys we’ll leave it there… And don’t get me started on the Dynavap lot.”🐸

😱😱

Did you say that they stole your play snack?

This is turning into a vape version of the warriors with all the gangs. Can you be in more than one gang? or is it vape in vape out.

Gave me a turbo wedgie!

Extraction Gang Motto: “Lungs Are Evil And Must Be Destroyed” 🫁❌

I think there is some confusion generally on Ball vapes that you HAVE to take massive lung busting hits! You really don’t, the Flowerpot for instance works best according to CH with a 0.05 loading dose, basically just covering the screen, you can vape it low temp for flavour or whack up the temp for a one hitter, or you can go somewhere between, just because it can vape 0.2 in one hit really doesn’t mean you need to or should, I deffo don’t, I’ve got wimpy lungs so no giants hits for me.

Honestly I don’t think saying 90% are shite is a bold statement, most really are very poor, whether it be efficiency, flavour etc. It’s far far easier to find an average to poor vape than a good one that’s for sure.

All the log vapes I’ve used have been pretty good, decent alternative for a Ball vape if you have a lower tolerance.

I do agree though, never been a fan of coils and waving around a 680 degree chunk of metal, so on that I’m with you.

Also it depends if you’re a sipper or a big hitter, I started as a sipper with my Mighty then ended up being a one hitter with my Flowerpot.

Do you realise there is a whole cult of people who will argue that the pax is "the" best vape in the world and that is that!

We shall ignore the obvious low hanging fruit of the storz and bickel zombies

Maybe I just own the 10% you don't think are crap 🤔

I was using my sticky brick og this morning as it's been a while and that was full of flavour and nice big clouds

Yeah sadly I do lol, the Pax is horrendous, my mate still to this day won’t have its crap, it boggles my mind, and as to the S&B fanboys we’ll leave it there… And don’t get me started on the Dynavap lot.

Maybe you really do own the 10% I think are decent, I use my Sticky Brick Runt nearly daily! And my Jr. when out and about, gotta love a Brick no restrictor, when you get the technique down not much beats it imo.

90% are shite?

Just out of curiosity? What is in the 10%

Everyone has there preference. On vapes, product fuck even temps you vape at.

Just adding everything in the one comment.

Regardless of what you use and how you consume it. The main objective is to enjoy it and get high or medicate.

Agree 100% that regardless of what you use or champion. There are always going to be the hard core fan boys that spend endless amounts of cash, just because of the make but that's in everyday life not just vapes.

Also cost is a massive driving factor.

Also the where you want to use it?

I don't use my dyna outside the house as I don't want to look like a crack head. Also the fact that the weather is always pish. Where my gaff is

I say 90% as there are hundreds now, literally hundreds and most are very poor.

Good ones of the top of my head

Flowerpot
Qaroma
Oldhead
O’Connell TKO
SSV43
Tinymight
Any Sticky Brick
Argus (not bad)
Mighty (not bad)
Crafty (not bad)
Plenty (not bad) eats flower though

I get none are budget options but I do feel with vapes you pay for what you get imo.

I’m sure there are some other really good options out there I haven’t tried and likely cheaper than most my options but can only go off what I’ve tried.

I rarely if ever vape flower on the go, I just use a Yocan Uni Pro for carts which to me is the best solution and a desk top at home but like you say everyone is differnt and has differnt use cases.

You are expressing personal opinion as fact 🤷🏽

I prefer my ssv unmodded as it's lack of draw restriction and airy vapour is unmatched in that area

You are expecting everyone to want to experience herb in the same way as you

Ok so

£40 xvape cheech and Chong mambo is a great little discreet convection unit with a terrible name, so good I have two

I don't expect it compete with my TetraP80 but as it's approximately ten times cheaper than that who would. However I take it out and about and on holiday

Xmax starry 4 £80 great little conduction vape for those who like the extraction signature they offer, if you want a pax by this it's better (I suspect that you prefer convection)

Xmax v3 £80 a great little convection device for those with a lower tolerance

All of these taste better than smoking and all will get a fair majority of people high with little issues and all on a budget

Are they ball vape extraction territory no but there's so many people out there that don't need that

Hell there's still people buying and enjoying magic flight boxes

Anyhow I time for me to take some prescription pain relief

Now what should I use 🤔

See there are some good options for value I haven’t tried, some maybe great, I don’t need a portable but if I did I’d look at those options for sure.

I never got to try the P80, always heard very very good things about it though.

And I have a magic flight box Muad Dib, and I still use it rarely but it’s not bad at all.

Agreed that literally all options are better than smoking but what really turned me away from sippers like the mighty was the flavour falling off so fast.

As to your last question, TetraP80, let me know how it is.

All the vapes you list as good are convection biased all the not bads are hybrids and due to energy costs lots of session devices are hybrid or conduction based.

Tp80 is the most open handheld I own by a large factor its closest rival is the SSV for draw restrictions in my opinion, however they aint cheap , they are hard to get when they drop, they need a good warmup session on wake up to get it doing stuff and they eat batteries like its powering a tesla.

That said its a fantastic vape and is super versatile on glass or with stems.

Have you seen all the low cost quartz / borosilicate torch powered vapes like Rogue WaxWorks Quartz caps and glass charlies tastytube? they kick well and cope with hash well too

I think that’s my issue, well not issue but preference, I just don’t seem to get medicated the same with Conduction, recently had a Vapman and hated it, even hated it with hash and it’s meant to be king of that for vapes. I’ve never ever gotten along with Dynavaps for the same reason, I just don’t get the same effects from conduction vapes and certainly not compatible flavour.

I’m not too familiar with the ones you listed but a Google search showed they’re basically an elev8r? If so yeah big fan of them, very simple and clean method due to the pathway being all glass and let’s face it who doesn’t like using a torch?

More like big vaponic's the elev8r is convection dominated because it's a big hot lump of quartz above the herb at a distance where unless you inhale it won't do anything, with the positioning of the heater around the herb but isolated by an air gap allows for you to play around with convection/conduction balance and that's why they work so well for hash, the elev8r isn't great for hash imo

My dog wasn't the biggest fan of torches intiallly tbh but she's indifferent to them now

Yeah I see what you’re saying, like a big Vaponic, interesting, feel it’s something that needs to be sampled for sure, I do like a bit of torch and technique ritual, thanks for the heads up.

Agreed there are loads as you say. I like the fact that your keeping the list to what you have tried because it does provide good context.

Now I’m not saying I agree with your list. Your bang on regarding everyone is different use cases

Yeah I do hate people that comment on something they’ve never tried, or tried once and have an opinion, everything on my list I’ve owned and used extensively. If you don’t mind which ones are you disagreeing with? Just interested really, One man’s meat is another man’s poison for sure.

So in regards to the list.

This is probably moving the goal posts but as we have discussed now you have the choice of 1000 of vapes and combinations.

I would split the list into categories or we would be comparing a Ford caprie to a ferrari f50.

The top 4 and the bricks I have not used. I have seen a lot in use, watching vape porn. That type of vaping is just not practical for me. I get the attraction and they are all decent bits of kits from what I’ve seen. Apart from the bricks the rest fall in to the same category.

I have used the same set up as them but just for dabbing but not flower.

I’m a different things for different strokes lol kind of vape user. On the most part the vapes I have and how I use them is dictated by the why, when and with what?

The bricks / piro / flam / O’Connell are all on my wish list.

Got to love the smell of butane in the morning.

Other than that I can’t comment on them.

The rest of the list I agree on them being there but is (not bad in comparison to the rest of the list or type of device)

I would put crafty/mighty as one as it’s the same extraction.

TM2 definitely

Angus agreed and massively over looked especially given the price. So that’s hand held electronic

Don’t roll the eyes but dynavap is a glaring omission in my opinion or similar like the Dani or anvils but not used them.

I agree that there is major fanboy people that no matter what they will buy it (armoured cap being one) I was falling into that trap but had a conversation quite like some comments because he was selling some expensive stuff. You can have loads but most people always have a preference and the rest end up being expensive ornaments.

I do have tip and cap combos depending on what I’m using but use two steams M a BB9 oh and a glass one

I love the the felling you get when you just hit the spot! Especially with hash. Gauging it is half the fun for me then dialling in. Of course flower is not the same but it’s good fun riding that line like sea biscuit 🍪

Butane is fun 🤩

Not a fan of herb vapes, waste of time, weed and money in my opinion. Get a 510 battery for £30 or so and go for distillate carts instead, better flavour and high. Still get that tickle throat thing but not as bad as on a herb vape….

Not sure what herb vapes you have tried but considering a lot of carts still dont use CDT's and its not a full spectrum extraction even when they do its difficult to get onboard with the idea of a better flavour and high.

Vapes are super subjective and there are a fair amount of not great ones in the cheap seats and even in the posh bits sometimes (looking at you utillian and pax)

Carts are part of the repertoire for sure but I would hate to do them all the time, and to miss out on the wonderful world of bud for a capsule of goo?…why that’s simply a crime!😉

Totally agree, i really like the resins, but pace myself as to preserve the tolerance.
Theres room for a balanced diet in my opinion, and Roulade!

Ooooooh…roulade!😋🤤

Roulade AKA (unless it savoury) posh Swiss Roll

Well it is when Polly rolls a fat one

I think I have this sort of image in my mind🤓…herb & badder/resin/caviar rolled together. Gotta tell you- it’s bloody lovely in the Mighty! 👨‍🍳🤤

The Real Thing!

Table for 1 please

Oh, I have your reservation Sir 😉👨‍🍳

Thank you kindly.

Exactly rotation is key 🔑

I hear you on that one. For me herb vapes ain’t my thing. Whatever works for one person may not work for the other…whatever gets you thru the night…

Exactly, you like what you like and as long as you enjoy it. That’s the whole point 🤷‍♂️

Same with strains and products

💨💨💨💨

Someone call the cannabis crime squad 🚨🚨🚨🚨

Disagree 100%

I love carts but no chance is it a better stone than flower or other concentrate. I find the high short and sharp with D9 Not to mention fucking with your tolerance.

LR or 50/50 are going in the right direction stoned wise.

Like anything everyone is different and prefer different things. Got to love LB and the selection we all have 💨💨💨

Yep each to their own, nothing beats flower in a joint, for me flower in herb vape doesn’t work, have tried a few herb vapes with some knockout weed, that paled in comparison to that of a joint or a cart. As for tolerance, this gets fucked with either way, unless you take a break occasionally or mix up the strains.

As I said about most above. In the other comment.

As long as you’re enjoying it!

It took me ages to pull away from joints onto vapes and we could probably debate for hours 😆

In regards to tolerance vaping 90% + THC is going to have a quicker and worse impact on your tolerance than flower but again it all comes down to personal preference and volume of consumption.

I have two packages on the way one from Hashishin which has been floating around An Post for about 4 weeks now and one from RealD only ordered a few days ago, only mid week I received notification that there is a customs charge of €4.57 on Hashishins one so I paid it, this has happened me twice before once with Hashishin and someone else can’t remember second one but after I paid customs they sailed through ,if I didn’t pay they said they would return to sender after 14 days, the other one was from England and no hassle after paying charge, I’ll let yous know if they drop but ordered off RealD before and no problem,,,quick add on if anyone here knows the customs charges per weight with An Post throw up a few examples and help the sellers out

Not surprising and has been something I was saying a few weeks back now, are you getting a love letter from customs when this happens? So far not one of mine that never landed has not had one which I find odd as I have a very good friend in Dublin that I have been sending to for several months now and they always land every time with no issues touch wood so far.

It's a big mess for vendors as it is a no-win situation as they are always to blame when push comes to shove not only do they have to give a 100% refund as there is no such thing as meeting halfway in most cases so for me until things change it's a mug's game sending to Ireland from the UK also not mention it affects your delivery times stats and allows for thc hungry low ballers with no class to spout there frustrations its is a cesspit of misery for both sides when it goes wrong.

No love letters no, the parcels have too good stealth for that. They are being returned to sender due to incorrect customs info is what an post advise.

So that means that they are getting through customs and more than likely the correct amount of tax is not being paid. otherwise they would not of made it into the hands of An Post as it will hit customs before An Post.

To me though it is too much of a ball ache as it is inviting extra problems not just the filth and especially not customs but with that said the word on the street is people are getting caught with several boxes atm and they are just getting a fine or a little bit of community even people robbing lorries are now getting ankle bracelets.

Also LB back end would not stop taking orders from Eire even though I had setting only for UK. There was a bug even the shipping options which are for UK and were able to click on UK shipping even though they are in the Emerald so fuck it is what it is.

I've been getting packages fine from UK recently, it's all about filling out right info and decent stealth iv had packages assessed by customs and still get delivered due to good stealth

That's great to hear Stonerkid and yes you are right when you send items that are larger than a letter you need to fill in customs forms but if you are simply sending a letter there is no need for any form filling and for the last 2 years or so this has been the best method but it relies on trust from both sides.

Did you ever get a love letter from customs my friend?

Hey dopey no never received anything, did it not get sent back to you?

I can only think then that a sticky fingered postal worker is at it then as it does not make sense as so far not one message from any customer saying they have had a seizure notice which is unheard of in my experience someone tell me if I am wrong if they no different please.

No Stonerkid as there is no return to sender only fictional my friend.

I’d have to say Cheese, between 2000/2005.

Reminds me of my school days when we used to chip in £1/2 to get a £5 draws haha

These were the days 3 pound each and trying to pursuade a dealer to give us a tens

4 ways on a teenth was not uncommon in NW2 in 1998.
Some lame hash with dog hairs in it from the local hippie-🤣🤣.

Those WERE the days ay.

And there'd be a party at 2am when you found a blim in the sofa recess during Shithead.

Damm this brings back some memories doing the same things with my mates how things have changed 🤷‍♂️

Definitely and Luton blues

Shaman by Dutch passion skunkxpurple#1 strain great sativa.

Totally agree! Pure Banger! Light green color with a strong beer smell! Kept an eye open for it, never to be found!

Hello mate. Just to let you know. I didnt mean anything by downvoting you it was an accident i meant to upvote you

I don’t know if it’s the best, but my favourite strain is Sour Diesel. I’ve been a fan since I tried the East Coast cut that Grey Area used to sell in Amsterdam. Some of the best tasting weed I’ve ever had.

Yes I remember that sour diesel from the grey area 👍😂😉also the New York city Diesel from Abraxsas.that was a nice smoke.i drove to Amsterdam that year 2006 if i recall world cup time..I smuggled 6 grams of that back 🥴.and made it through ha ha 🤣.those were the days 😉

It’s for sure a classic

Yellow Zushi for me.

A Rare Cherry Pheno AK 47 from SIlk road in 2010.

I see we got a dark web veteran here

Ooh that sounds interesting.
Cherry AK.

I wonder what strain is it that brings this cherry terpene to the plate?

Chocalope!

For me it has to be some Bruce Banner #3 from 1e hulp in the dam all the way back in 2017. I've never been able to recapture that one. It was a skunky, kind of gassy & fruity type all rolled into one with such a unique flavour profile to finish. The high was second to none. Wiped me right out. Left me looking at the world with my eyes so bulged they were basically closed. They say you'll never recapture that first high, this one took me above and beyond.

Bruce Banner great strain very powerful

For sure! It flew under the radar quite a bit and I think it's unique musk and it's face melting is why.

Super Lemon Haze from the original Greenhouse Coffeeshop in Amsterdam :)
Also Arjans Strawberry Haze is right there with it, properly grown in soil for pure taste, can't beat the sweet berry on the exhale!

Ooo I forgot about strawberry haze, that was a great flavour esp the ones that genuinely tasted of strawberries!

Yess! I still think about that SLH smoke and have never found anything quite like it.

God that was like 15/20 years go!

Purple Haze back in 2008. Smelt and tasted like lavender. Haven’t had anything quite like it since then.

Man I used to get some banging street weed back around those times. Northern Lights, White Widow and good ole Cheese were the norm.

haven't seen any white widow for ages one of my favourites

Purple Haze back in 2008. Smelt and tasted like lavender. Haven’t had anything quite like it since then.

Man I used to get some banging street weed back around those times. Northern Lights, White Widow and good ole Cheese were the norm.

Never knew the strain but I've been forever trying to find something that I smoked about the same era that had a lavender terp.

Lovely stuff, got it once and then I've never seen anything like it since.

got an oz like that in the late 90's, had the potent lavender smell and taste. think it was a bit on the indica pheno side. very dark purple and when you snapped the buds in half the core was almost black. amazing bag appeal. really strong and tasty stuff too

I used to get some critical mass that was just like that around the same time. Nice big round buds.

Probably the timeless Afghan Kush for me

I’ve only had this once but it was beautiful.
Tasted like Afghan black hash, made me very happy for about 30 minutes then sent me to bed.
Same with you?

Blue Cheese for me. One best tasting and strong high, wish it would come back.

I absolutely love blue cheese. So tasty and so strong. I used to get an oz every week off my plug back in the day. Couldn't get enough of it. Got it recently in the dam too at Greenhouse effect. Was just like how I remembered it.

Yeah man, the real blue cheese was so pungant, it don't matter if it was wrapped in 3 layers, you could still smell that shit. it's just not same nowadays! :(

Yea you know if your saying that. A taste of more off it. The stuff I got in the dam was really nice but nothing like years back.

1995 Northern Lights
2023 FBC (from Druids Magic)

The two best strains/grows I’ve ever smoked. By far.

Gelonade I had a lovely batch a few years ago off the dw never tasted gelonade like it since and can’t even remember who the seller was called

recently went to albania, fuck knows what it was but it was something mint related.... they albanians know how to grow haha

Best growers in the world hands down haha

the world would be a better place without albanians, when it comes to weed. that much is certain.

classic Stardawg, u can never go wrong

I’m not ashamed to agree.
Gets you boxed too. Can’t deny that.

I had the best stardawg from SDL recently classic old school gassy dawg

Quality Stardog is done off the best bud

ESB - extra special bud , Old times #2 and S4 - Skunk 4 ways. S4 by far was the best I have ever had even to this day sadly it was a special made breed so will never have the oppurtunity to try it again :(