Well done, no good deed is unpunished with some biggaz but you are surely appreciated.

People only understand what they understand, usually that means themselves.

Canon borg provided some more information, this might help:

A new borg is born! Or as we say "forked". In this case forked from cleanup borg, whose general function is removing harmful content from little biggy.

Proof borg isolates particular content, parsing the words that cleanup borg reads to find provable, trustless data.

Proof borg's (littlebiggy.org/4821348) 1st objective is analysing contests for provably fair results, thus preventing manipulated outcomes.

Despite the particularly computative nature of this borg, it's still all of our words that remain it's heart.

1st objective? Sounds like there is more coming..

Yes, terrible people understanding themselves wishing to make this a better place for new vendors and biggas. We should hang our heads in shame 🙄.
As you can clearly see a majority of the community that has engaged actually totally agree about the wall. I would say that democracy is probably not on your side here.
Infact, I think only 3 people have had anything negative to say. 2 of those biggas joined in the same month of the same year and were supporting the other's abstract point and had both coincidentally been offline for 3 days at time of writing so, that means 2 people max in my eyes.

liz truss, democracy, post modernism and paranoid accounting. bigga please. this borg announced actually helping and doing something for us. if you care about the topics wall then it should be obvious that contests get lots of attention from the algorithm, they are starting to dominate the wall and presumably bs ones were proliferating. and we are talking about the front page for this site.

what are the choices they have here? they could be lazy and kill all contests (basically the reddit mod move) or even lazier and let the wall be filled with people trying to enter a zero barrier to entry scam.

this is why i gave you the link to the wall bot. if you have some ideas great, but let someone (something?) that's trying to help do their job.

Ad hominem attacks, invalid arguments, building a strawman.
It's clear you have some dog in this fight, I just wish you would be upfront about it and say, "Sorry Biggas, the wall is perfect and not going to get any better"
It should be obvious from the thread, that people think there are better priorities than comps.
The choice i suggested here is that if somebody doesn't sell an item for over a year, the item should disappear from the wall way before this for a more recently listed item.
You are trying to position this as merely a binary choice -"the wall stays as it is, or it is filled with exit scams"
You know as well as I do that the wall can be fixed without making it susceptible to exit scams.
I see you ignored every point about the fact that LB bots paying lip service to change, but rarely actually makes any.
It's true isn't it? That's why it feels pointless to actually message the wallbot.
I echo what Polly says, if the site doesn't want meaningful dialogue about how to improve, then just say so and we won't bother.

It would help if borgs worked with vendors to make contests provably fair instead of just deleting everything.

Everything can be made easier with a bit of dialogue.

100% , but it's quicker to just click delete 😐

It'd be really good if there was a "wall borg" that was as diligent as you say you will be on this subject.
There are vendors items on that wall that have had no reviews in almost 400 days. Given how easy it is for the owners of the site to make anybody they like invisible to the wall, I find this incidence really puzzling. I hope there is no favours involved in that?
On the last reviews of the particular example item I am talking about (there are many more items like this on the wall) 3 of the last visible reviews in the last 5 from over a year ago are saying the item didn't arrive, vendor ignored them and comms were really bad.
Meanwhile, some new vendors wait and wait and wait to get an item on the wall, but never end up there.
I think this is provably unfair, if I'm really honest.
The dominoes are falling in Europe - Czech and Germany are legalising soon. We will be at the hundredth monkey soon.
I love this place, I really do but the reality is that more of these kind of places will pop up as decriminalisation advances through the West, somebody will copycat the idea for a lightnet weed escrow service with a server in a legal country - and at this point it would not be too hard to change a few simple things to improve the model we have here.
I think the site owners really need to listen to the people who use this site and actually implement some changes that people suggest.
A good example was months back when everybody lost loads of money on Truss' and Kwarteng's historical mini budget disaster. Somebody started an initiative and hundreds voted FOR change to currency listing to £'s so we aren't all at the mercy of the exchange rate as well as btc fluctuation. Not a single fuck given by the site owners.
I don't think it will take alot to make this place hard to better.
Regards
E

the wall bot is here.

As I read it “diligence” was the issue, not existence. But thanks for the downvotes anyhow🤷‍♂️

sorry but its one thing to see you consistently talk out of your ass and another to read accusations that come from the same place.

i do understand how tea leaf reading all day can lead to this though, the borgs do not give out a lot of information about how the wall works and the people that don't like outcomes are left to speculate.

on the other hand this seems pretty difficult, maybe impossible, search engines never disclose their algorithm because they don't want manipulation.

borgs have made quite a few posts about how things work. you're a class act polly, (no retributive downvote underscores this ;) ) and you care about this community we all love. its obvious these folks stand on their head to give users a voice and to do things right, there must be a better path for you than this.

I've been a mod on other sites and the thing is an open mic inevitably goes to shit. Idiots dominate because worthwhile folks get turned off so it metastasises. Curtail this and then you're censoring and that starts a shit vibe of its own. There is no such thing as a 100% win and if you think 50 50 is fair then you get increasing polaisation and a nasty mood all of the time. It's gotta be way worse when there is commerce at stake.

This post is a great example, here is a borg setting a very high standard for this community in an unobjectionable way, it's pretty much impossible to find fault with it or question motives but immediately people come in with their own agendas.

Good luck borgs

So, just to be clear, we as the community shouldn't make suggestions for improvement when we see an obvious conflict in priority when it comes to talking about fairness?
I think we all realise the nature of this place means no such thing as 100% win. It's not amazon, but suggesting improvements to the fairness in how the wall works (as well as the contests) doesn't seem to me to be objectively unrealistic in any way.

Of course not but

1 It's hella off topic for this post.
Have you ever seen a standard for contests that doesn't rely on authority? That's more relevant and a lot more interesting than liz truss.

2 How is it a "community priority" that the wonderwall reflect outcomes that an excluded group is going to, by definition, be unsatisfied with? Do you understand that this will *always* be the case and that with an open mic this opinion will always be voiced just like this, with a cabal of the effected very honestly believing they represent a consensus?

In any event I think the item walls is a frustrating place to shop and should be torn down like the one in Berlin, with charming bits left to reflect history :)






2 what exactly is the suggestion

1. It was about fairness. I didn't engage an abstract discussion on post-modernism as a response.
I didn't say that there should be no standards, so in my eyes that's a bit of a strawman. It's OK to point out that some things are fair, but other things aren't right? Both things can be true. To what degree must we stay on topic? Especially as I ask why the diligence on this thing, but not on the wonder wall.

2. That as it may be - it's not really me that the wall issues effect - but i can see it from a mile off personally. It is new vendors and new buyers I feel it is unfair on which I am sure the site owners will hope are making up a significant majority for their own continued prosperity.
My suggestion is that if an item hasn't visibly sold any in 370 days, it probably isn't much in demand and a newbie may fall into this trap by not reading - it should probably disappear before this in place of a more recent listing (just in my opinion)..

if an item hasn't visibly sold any in 370 days, it probably isn't much in demand and a newbie may fall into this trap by not reading - it should probably disappear

bigg up.

You do know there is a Borg for ideas & site innovations don’t you?…(in fact there is a Borg for an awful lot of things). LB constantly invites Biggas to get involved and that’s the point- LB pays lip service to change but rarely makes any despite volume of voice. Why is it wrong to point that out?

I doubt anyone loves LB more than I do but they either want a meaningful dialogue or they don’t. I’m fine with it either way as long as I get to buy my weed😎

Bit weird….

Yes, I wish the bots were colder, like the code that runs bitcoin. Open code is what this place needs more than anything else.

this this this

Thanks pal, not quite sure what rattled coldspurs but they clearly needed to get me off their chest😂😉

If one doesn't get at least some in here, I think one is being too nice.
Still, I killed man with kindness and upvoted that link.
Wonder if they find the wall helpful for finding the things they want?
I don't. Still, bookmarking pages is pretty easy.
(Insert generic uplifting remark)
E

This is speculative but, I think the site may be in $ for 'legal' reasons. The servers are US based.

I agree that the owner could do better with prioritising changes, top of that list for me is all these fake vapes, or spice vapes that need testing and removing. Maybe even temp banning from the items wall for the vendors, as a deterrent.

If a vape is confirmed fake because the original brand doesn't even manufacture them in the first place, or there's obvious errors like spelling mistakes,.fake QR codes, why aren't they being removed?

i would like a wall filter tested/untested at the very base level

Great sentiments, very well expressed.

Frankly I’m stunned by how much LB gets its Borg knickers in a twist over a few competitions being “demonstrably fair” instead of focusing on those things on the site that are “demonstrably unfair”.

Maybe “proof borg” will be a breath of fresh air 🙏🏽, but not if they are convinced that competitions are a real issue….

Agreed…

Why the sudden fuss over this when there are other more important changes to make. (Which have been mentioned on here for years) Never heard anyone complain about competitions. Lol

I agree with Polly, bigger issues onsite to be looked into than fake giveaways, this is a start, hopefully more positive changes are made soon. 💯

SOTL

Honestly at this point it feels like they make us use $ purely out of spite I can't think of any other possible explanation now, can't just be lazyness when they have time for this sort of thing. Maybe they didn't like us asking so much.

the item writer they are currently building, it lets you set several different currencies.

Well its good to see it hasn't been ignored/forgotton over the years, I'll take back my comments as soon its implemented :)

We randomly select numbers for our giveaways using random.org, we also stream it on YouTube Live for everyone to see. I'm happy that something is being done regarding giveaways / contests, nice one proof borg.

SOTL

The borgs picking the wrong fight,sort your wall out,fix the pricing from usd.i mean you got someone who's contributing to lb with giveaways to biggas and its getting jumped on.Theres more important stuff that needs fixing

Smallest wang wins?🤔

Where can i claim my prize🪱

You do have to love this. Biggy all involved in contests. People enter. They win. They don’t win. Nobody really cares.

When it comes to a payment system that doesn’t bankrupt everyone.

Silence. You ain’t seen us.

Vendors. Keep doing your competitions. Nobody gives 3 shits even if they are fixed. Nobody is losing.

And if all the drama is someone getting butthurt.

Meh. We’ve been there.

Nice work borg :)

If the seller is holding the contest and judging how is that fair?

Because it's declared a subjective contest.

The contest runner as judge is the basis of most subjective contests irl (think of tv shows). However in our case the declared winner is run against anti cybil algos that are used elsewhere on lb. We also have the voice of the other participants and the ongoing reputation stakes that drive analysis like this.

This is one of the most intriguing insights behind the curtain that I've seen posted.

thanks, that makes sense

Seemed a bit harsh shutting Pistach latest contest down before even giving them chance to say how the winners would be decided.... I'm not saying that just because I entered btw! but surely if your point is to prove it's fair then you have to actually let the sellers prove it's fair?

Hello. Can I have some help with my giveaway please?

I want to make sure I'm adhering to the rules.

MM 💚

They have all been for manipulation to gain self promotion and unfair ness in community. - They are all "worked" like politics. Clearly easy to work out the agenda of it all. Yet others got smacked up for less.

Not won many competitions then Andy?…😂😂

SLAYED me