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1 topic on BassNote

4 posts

+5 votes

by Mags74

Vape

9 posts by BassNote

4 posts

+6 votes

on 2outof00

'High strength skunk cannabis' - is it a myth?

Almost every long term study shows daily users are at an increased risk of psychosis and the stronger the weed the higher the risk. It cannot be ruled… + 4 more

+14

on 2outof00

'High strength skunk cannabis' - is it a myth?

I'm sure you've all heard the same epithet repeated over and over again. I attended a talk a few weeks ago by an eminent researcher on schizophrenia who hypothesised that 'high strength skunk cannabis' was contributing to rising cases of drug-induced psychosis in certain areas (particularly South London and Spain, for example).

I've always been skeptical of this narrative for three reasons:

1) because ascertaining 'strength' through THC content alone is reductive when there are over 400 chemical entities factoring into its psychoactive effects. Different strains, growing conditions, metabolic rates, level of fatigue, hell... even how good your day has been all factor into the potency of a high.

2) Chemical testing of cannabis was rather unreliable and not widespread until fairly recently so we'll never really understand overall changes in chemical composition of cannabis mathematically speaking (why do intelligent people make such broad, uneducated assumptions about complex things!?)

3) Although a hard distinction between old and new cannabis varieties is a bit of a fantasy; I'd say that overall my experiences with good quality, well-grown newer varieties tend to be cleaner, more clinical and less psychedelic than 'old-world' weed and I find the high easier to manage overall, even if I might dose myself lower. I've met a few people over the years with similar experiences. Anecdotally I'd say that newer strains carry a lower chance of jitters and psychosis and a higher chance of couch-lock and passing out.

Not really asking a question or trying to make a single point here but just thought I'd log my thoughts on the issue in case it resonates with anyone. Shout out to Pistach for getting me high enough to write this bollox.

Bigbum

High strength skunk is a political tool for bashing cannabis.

Thc is a psychotic and cbd is antipsychotic. I think having zero cbd in you cannabis and having an underlying mental health condition isn’t a healthy combination. For everyone else , I doubt we will go nuts;)

2outof00

Interesting, I've heard this before. I'm sure research is still pretty embryonic but unless we lift prohibition we're unlikely to fully understand why cannabis does what it does.

Studies into mushroom use are becoming all the rage in places like Imperial College at the moment so lets see where that takes us.

sam508

Cheers for posting, enjoyed the read :)

That term 'high strength skunk cannabis' grinds my gears.lol. Our press in this country (uk) love this term and have turned it into such a negative phrase! To me though it goes to show how out of touch they are with the current situation!

When it come to psychosis its a touchy subject... Its definitely used by the nay sayers to shit on a potential legal cannabis industry here.. and Ive seen a number of articles who hype this up for their own agenda...

There are people though who do suffer with psychosis which needs to be addressed as well..

I don't know all the facts and figures but I do believe the ratio of who gets some form of serious psychosis to those who don't is very low.

I believe this just provides more evidence that cannabis should be legalised. This is so proper advice can be given to those who suffer with some form of mental illness and the correct dosage can be given if its right for them :)

2outof00

Yeah well put. There's high risk in all manner of things we take for granted and really its down to the likelihood of risk to users rather than the severity of the worse case scenario.

Less than half a percent of the population suffer from psychosis and even fewer of those numbers are down to cannabis use (not to mention that alcohol-induced psychosis is very much a thing too!)

Under legalisation millions more people would consume cannabis which would inevitably lead to an increase in psychosis *but* the numbers would still likely be lower than most other psychological afflictions + the numbers could be somewhat offset by the benefits of cannabis experienced by many users.

Having an excessively risk averse attitude towards policy-making can actually cause more problems in many cases. The fact that North America has woken up to this before us is hilarious.

pollypuff20

GREAT points Sam 👍❤️

pollypuff20

Great thread to read, thanks folks and particularly 2outof100 😍👍

ilsenator

It's a media buzzword/phrase, but it's not a myth. It's the inevitable by-product of prohibition.

Since the US stepped up its war on drugs, the old ways of importing outdoor weed (mostly Mexican, for US... hash for Europe) were clamped down on.

When cannabis cultivation got pushed indoors, we effectively had more intensive cultivation - looking to develop as much THC as possible within a small space. Potency became the main objective of seed breeding and the whole thing became more sophisticated.

Similarly, during alcohol prohibition - people were opting for spirits (and moonshine) rather than beers and wine.

It's entirely possible that in a decriminalised or legalised situation, consumers might actually opt for less 'high strength'. But in the meantime it makes better business sense for the black market to offer the highest potency possible - potency is still regarded by most as an indicator of quality.

GazYNWA

Funny you should mention prohibition because just as that was coming to an end Harry Jacob Anslinger started running The Bureau of Prohibition. When that disbanded he took over Federal Bureau of Narcotics and set his sights on marijuana. He had Congress make it illegal, his case rested on two fantastical assertions: that the drug caused insanity and that it pushed people toward horrendous acts of criminality. Others at the time argued that it was fiercely addictive. He then started a propaganda campaign using medical Dr's to make the lies 'real'. The real truth was that Mexicans used it so making cannabis illegal made it easier for them to arrested and deport innocent Mexicans. Here's one of the propaganda posters.

2outof00

I enjoy thinking about cannabis (also tea, coffee for example) from that perspective. We cultivate these plants to suit some form human utility so there is a strong argument that, as you say, prohibition has effectively shaped the evolution of cannabis to make us 'more stoned'.

On the other hand I question what that means. Does a botanist really have access to that information? Surely these things are highly subjective and selecting for them in a plant is extremely difficult? In other words; a grower might smoke one of their plants and think "this is more potent", but does that reflect an objective truth about potency or more about the subjective 'taste' of the grower?

Strange comparison but it reminds me of the eugenics debate that unravelled throughout the 19th & 20th Century - people really believed intelligence was quantifiable in such a way that we could select for it via human breeding. The reality is far more complex! There are different forms of intelligence which are culturally and environmentally specific and don't neatly fit onto a global continuum.

Potency is a product of the user, the environment and the plant working symbiotically. What we consider 'high strength skunk cannabis' (in my opinion) is really a manifestation of American breeding programmes (1960's-) which hybridised a diverse range of plants from around the world with varying 'potency', resin production, resistance to disease etc. As you mentioned, America's political influence has also shaped our perception of the plant as well.

Probably haven't worded myself very well but I did my best lol.

2outof00

I have two relatives who suffered from cannabis-induced psychosis. From the outside it looked like any other drug 'addiction' cycle in the sense that they smoked more, their tolerance increased, the drug became associated with almost all aspects of their waking life etc. I personally think their psychosis wasn't caused primarily by the strength of the cannabis per se but with *how* they were using it (method, frequency etc).

sometimes I feel almost lucky that they chose to self-medicate with cannabis rather than heroin or alcohol because, as your second point suggests, I always felt there was always some inevitability about their substance abuse and thankfully both are still with us. On the other hand I have taken a whole load of drugs throughout my life but never abused them - it's the 'abuse' bit that is often ignored with cannabis in my opinion.

Hard to explain the 'clean' and 'clinical' thing. When I smoke some good quality durban poison (for example) the effect reminds me of a low dose of mushrooms - temperamental, psychedelic, pensive and can send you on a bad trip if you're unlucky. Cali packs on the other hand don't alter my perceptions so much as they just sedate me like a valium. I'm massively generalising, but that is probably some way towards explaining what i meant.

2outof00

It's a factor that would surely be mitigated by ending prohibition? Better understanding about what constitutes strength (because research would be easier to conduct) + more consumer choice regarding strains etc + new technologies which could enable us to consume cannabis in different ways which may mitigate some of the negative effects (hypothetically!)

'flat' high is an excellent way of describing what i meant, yes.

hank

every study paid for by big pharma or our bought and paid for governments, you mean... who pay the staff then give them the answer they want for their money...then they do 'research' untill they find the answer they just got paid to find...this is not how real science works.

hank

my evidence for the way the entire medical industry is owned and controlled by a criminal cartel ?????
check the biggest movement of wealth in the history of mankind from poor tax payers to billonaires who bribed our government to go along with a man made scam involving a man made 'virus' which only exists in a lab...or did you miss that?
what about the 5 nobel prizes for cancer? that they forget about?
what about the FDA just applying to cover up Pfizers covid vax test results untill 2100?
or did you miss those too?

hank

the FDA Pfzer cover up was just last week its on every search engine.
In 90 days they killed 1259 people ,or 1 every 1 hour 50 mins, its on Pfizefrs site.
The Scientist ran the 'man creates cross between coronavirus and sars story in 2015, when he made it with synthetic , recombined DNA, its on the world gene register.
You can check on any financial site to see profits and money moving from us to them. 2020 and 2021 were the largest ever.

The Great Vape Company 9.8/10

You just have to look at the uptake of cannabis users (worldwide since 2000) Vs the rate of people getting psychosis. There are no correlating figures, if it was as bad as 'they' make out, there would be an absurd amount of people with psychosis.

Construct

This is an old tale told by the anti weed mob.
In the early days of the great weed experiment that kicked off the genetic manipulation of all the original strains some of the early "skunk" was just evil with high THC levels,it was not a nice smoke and you would cough your lungs out smoking the shit and be lucky not to throw up and whitey on the spot,some of it the unscrupulous had used all sorts of chemicals to grow it.
It was a new thing nobody really knew what we were doing lol but like all things we learned and got better.
So yea there was a period when "skunk" was guilty of messing up people but that was a long time ago and was during a period of really good hash as weed was still rare in the UK.
If i had a modern comparison i would say that evil crap fake weed stuff you can get.

Kanon166

Also a lot of prescribed medicines etc cause psychosis hell even alcohol can and they are all legal drugs. I don't think anyone has ever gone cray cray from just weed alone it usually other factors involved, and if you have smoked that much chances are you're not getting up and mowing people down as you are to baked to move :)

Smiffoo

I've had psychosis before and always medicated. About a month ago I got accepted by sapphire medical for medical cannabis Advan flos emt1 it's 19-20% thc I get it every week for a £5 a gram lol.

I'm sure if they thought i was gonna have an episode again they wouldn't of given me a script? My script is 2grams a day vaped.

It's for PTSD too.

I just think some people are always going to loose their minds no matter what. I guess that's why all the new scripts in recent months for the DATA.

2outof00

Wow this was news to me - seems like a very well kept secret!? Reminds me of the days where my cousin in California was getting a cannabis script for 'glaucoma'... am I wrong in thinking this is quite a big step towards legalisation in the UK? Hope you're doing good.

axis_of_elvis

when they say "skunk" really they mean sinsemillia, fucking idiots. gw pharma grow the skunk strain, they then take that skunk and refine it into super strong oil that they put in a spray bottle, somewhere in their magic they lose the psychosis.

hank

of course its a lie. the entire medical system is owned and bought and paid for by criminals.
It is the heart of the NWO cartel conspiracy.
they have tested plants which have the same genetics from like 2,000 years ago in remote valleys of the hindu kush and found 22% THC so its not a new thing.
as you said, define strength...its impossible.
plus, you dont think that living in a big city, being spied on in every call and email you send, facial recognition on every corner...gang violence, robbery, knife crime ,guns , rape, terrorism....they have no affect on our mental health at all....its just the cannabis...what crock of shit.
the same medical corps with the biggest criminal fines in history for lying and killing people...the same who just made 100 billion of ourr tax for a scam?
i'd steer well clear of that kind of advice bro...
remember, smoking cigarettes was good according to the FDA...dairy caused obesity...and now they just tried to cover up Pfizers first covid vax results For 75 Years ( it killed 1 every hour and 50 mins )...they are the baddies.
and yeah cheers Pistach.

2outof00

I'm not a particularly conspiratorially minded person but I do think there is some truth in a lot of what you say. The researcher I mentioned in the original post did talk about the link between psychosis and urbanisation and I totally agree with you that the elevated 'social' risks that comes with cities can probably lead to quite specific psychological problems. Cannabis seems like an unnecessary scapegoat when you think about the bigger picture.

hank

who gains? the romans and greeks were taught to ask...it is the essential question of democracy.
ask who gains from this. follow the bottom line and not the front page.
are the 'scientists' paid to find a certain result, or to investigate generally?
it s the first one.
they go to work, the boss says find out why cannabis is bad...so they do, an entire industry grew out of this funding which most governments took part in from the 70s untill now. with OUR TAX they created propaganda.
big pharma has been bank rolling governments to stop cannabis production since it was first banned...by tobacco and paper manufacturers lobbying government so they could make more profit.
It cures so many things that big pharma has reasoned that...if it might cost us say, 10 billion a year, we can spend 1 billion a year bribing governments to keep it illegal.
Cannabis was never dangerous...it was lobbied against by those whose interests would be best served to keep or make it illegal.
Its how governments make decisions, they dont listen to us they take bribes..or lobbying as they term it.
Most scientists have mortgages too...you cant just take a degree and then 'science ' at home. you get a job working where other scientists do...and all those places are paid for by the same people, corporations and governments.
Great topic mate... .

1 post

+2 votes

on {buy help}

Do new items appear at the top?

Only by occasional coincidence. Number of reviews is the nearest you’ll get to an indicator of newness but it may mean a product nobody wants or sell…

on {buy help}

Do new items appear at the top?

Hi, do new items always appear at the top of the list? If not, how can I tell when the newest item's just come on?

Cheers

dwarfedgiant

I don't use the Items page/list to find new items. I go to the vendors page you want to check and see if there are items that have no review/ratings yet. Above the pic will be just the name of the item, no '9.8/10 68 reviews' bit.
The more you check a sellers page, the more you'll know what's their current and new items. Bookmark your 'go to' sellers for a quick check now and then.

egstract 10/10

it's pretty useless at the minute since there are sellers near the top who, if you look at their reviews.. theyve been refunded. in other words. scammed. (Im talking DankYou2021 and his many other accounts)

Ukgrower2 9.8/10

No one really knows how the wall behaves, it has a mind of its own, but the longer I’ve listed the same items, the further they have slipped down the wall... 2 years, I’m now near the bottom.

1 post

+1.8 votes

on MadDabber710 10/10

Avoid

Trolling people who tried to buy is a new one!

+1.8

on MadDabber710 10/10

Avoid

Totally agree, avoid. Whats the point in posting if you void the sale. Idiot!!

+7.2

hesh 10/10

tbf the site is absolute dogshit for vendors, especially new or small sellers

even basic things like when i listed a few things to sell, there was no option to set the amount of stock you have, so you literally have to sit here refreshing your order page to make sure you don't oversell, otherwise you end up with a load of cancelled orders like what happened here!

LB's fault imo been complaining about the flaws of this site for years, mostly simple fixes, but i'm still stuck at the same conclusion that LB admins are literally too busy counting money. shame

MadDabber710 10/10

We're new, still trying to figure out the site.

Since samples are no longer available, feel free to go to the full listing instead.

Cheers!

1 post

+0 votes

on Mags74

Vape give away

Start some negging threads about them mate, that will teach ‘em and their ‘nice gestures’.

1 post

+5 votes

on {buy help}

Honest feedback?

This place works best when you speak up, the silent but enormous minority need you and those feel differently to say so. Hope you’ve got stock.

on {buy help}

Honest feedback?

usually stick to the same vendors on LB but from time to time I will try someone new. One of my orders hasn't arrived and its clear its more than just a RM Delay... I have tried to reach out to the vendor but only got one very brief sarcastic message back blaming the post office (answered none of the questions I asked).
Such a hassle just for a 3.5 to try out a vendor. My issue is I feel like I cant leave honest feedback on the vendor as others who have get jumped on by their buyers/fans on LB... The vendor is quite large by the looks of it but my experience has been not great at all. My concern is if I speak out everyone jumps on me and labels me a 'troll', I love being on LB and order at least once a week without issues like this. Moral of the story is stick to the vendors you know and trust will come through.

pollypuff20

The good thing here is that you have a choice to share your experience or not without losing your coin. You can raise a dispute with Escrow and it will be privately resolved between you, them, and the vendor.
In addition you can make your experience public but the point should be to share with other Biggas, not as a threat to the vendor or simply for revenge. Detailing the facts is unlikely to get you called a troll despite how popular the vendor is, the vendor might respond and the matter resolved without Escrow.
Just remember that if you are genuine you should lever lose your coin….but you need to be patient too, most delayed orders turn up in the end 👍

Anon1385

If it's honest feedback then post it, it's helpful for everyone to know the good and bad. I doubt anyone will, but If anyone calls you a troll why do you care? If you know you're not then move on 🙂

Hope you get it sorted out 👍

Construct

How long have you been waiting and have you had any other letter post?
Postal service is fucked just now always is after new year,took 7 days for me to get from a vendor that is usually 1 day,i have not seen my postman since the new year and we had the double bank holiday mon/tue they were meant to be back wed but turned up in the scheme today sat with 3 vans and a bunch of posties who had no clue about the area.
But if you must use lb its what it is for but i know the vendors are a bit concerned just now with new customers they have been getting lots of dodgy no shows,but unfortunately they do happen as the postal service in the UK is full of crooks.
The alternative is make a deal with the vendor say you will buy again on the condition that they will reship your lost order and then continue to buy from them in a show of trust and tell them if it should happen again you will take the loss and curse out those RM crooks.
Most of the guys on here are good guys i buy from lots of them but i have had 3 gone missing all from different vendors.

Donker

Royal Mail is a absolute joke and It’s getting to the point where it’s making me not want to order on here anymore, the whole thing needs reorganising.

windiest

Keep it as a joke, don't want them to get their shit together and start intercepting packs ;)

Donker

But I want them to start delivering my packs 🤣 it’s hurting vendors and customers!

DeadRabb1t

I'm sure there's many a bigga who mentally labels me a "fan" among probably other choice words but usually what sets off a rabb1t is the way the situation is presented by the poster

For example I have been told I have no taste in weed for having said I liked a different strain of weed from the one this person was complaining about, with me having made that statement several month prior to the strain they had purchased even being made available. I obviously respond to that on the offensive

When people post issues with vendors in a calm considered and factual manner, I genuinely enjoy participating and assisting if I can to help resolve issues

Anyhow sorry I had some brownies earlier and omg they were so yummy and im definitely waffling

❤️🐰🤯

1 post

+1 votes

on ILLYA1966

Missing HASH Bud boyz

Don't let Escrow stall you past escrow either, just dispute from the original order.

on ILLYA1966

Missing HASH Bud boyz

Recently purchased 21g of mixed hash from this vendor SD Delivery !!no show contacted the vendor after a couple of days came back to me and admitted it was their end!! Apologies then promised to repost!! Still nothing and no response after patiently waiting!! Please help

bevbevan1

Dispute mate. Vendor will still get time to sort it just shows your serious

pollypuff20

Whack it across to Escrow- protect your coin!

Ludditeweed

Hope it works out. The mix bundle was my last purchase and I was happy with it. The hash was good and a nice change considering I haven't purchased hash in nearly fifteen years.